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-   -   Destroying Religion (http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4605)

ArghMonkey 05-15-2005 03:04 AM

Destroying Religion
 
Yikes !!! The churchies are taking over !

Its amazing, with science uncovering the truths of this universe it should have destroyed religion (for intelligent people it did, unfortunately the weak minded still need the god crutch).

I am interested in ways to help destroy religion, besides forcing people to think and put them through a good university education how can someone get through to the nutter churchies out there ?

ArghMonkey 05-15-2005 03:05 AM

P.S. yes I realize I am not being nice about it, I am sick of tip toeing around it though, issues like evolution are being twisted from the facts they are by a small group of uneducated people, the intelligent need to reclaim things here.

Lets keep perspective, teaching creationism alongside evolution isent balanced, its idiocy.

Spyne 05-15-2005 03:53 AM

I am 100% behind you. The only problem is finding a way to do it. No matter what science uncovers, the Christians will find a way to wiggle around it through an "interpretation" or an alternate hypothesis with no evidence behind it.

Basically, all you have to do is wait. The Christian ranks are diminishing slowly. This is evidenced by the ever-growing numbers of people like you and me.

kyman 05-15-2005 04:09 AM

If you want to destroy it, love it.

Religion is a mentality/personality/form-self of old, from back in the day, passed down through books, then assimilated into our newborns. It is like a ghost that doesn't know its already dead, and would recreate the entire world to reinforce its delusion, using us as objects/resources.

I don't support cult mentalities, as it means not being your self, and being that is the best service anyone can offer. I do encourage looking upon this mentality with love, so you don't become like it. Religion is identities crutch, but so is hate, spite, and violence.

To make them like yourself calls for loving them. Hating them would make you like them.

P.S. I don't mean to make presumptions about you. This is just my longwinded style of conversation. Actually, I've really enjoyed your posts. :)
I say what I say for the thread, while suspecting that you already know where I'm coming from.

Spyne 05-15-2005 04:11 AM

Quote:

If you want to destroy it, love it.
I have neither the patience nor the intestinal fortitude.

kyman 05-15-2005 04:21 AM

I might not either. But this is what my soul suggests.

Religion fosters seperateness, which means isolation, pain, suffering, hate, greed, jealousy. This is why men of god molest children. It is because of their cult mentality limiting their unconditional self/love. How could a 'man of god' do such things. It is because of his perception of god, and thus himself, which in this case, encourages delusion or unconsciousness of reality/love/oneness. The fight between god and the devil is a colorful way of describing the opposing forces of selflessness/love/angel on your shoulder and selfishness/identity/devil on your shoulder.

What I am saying is to disarm their delusion, you must weaken their fear. That's how this religion perpetuates itself, provoking fear. Our best bet is to appeal to their higher/inner nature, for those who aren't far gone. Their children will abandon them, as so many in this generation have.

Did Monkey say in another thread, our children will be fighting them. Well we can keep them from ruining their own children by offering an environment of acceptance and love. Only those already doomed to selfishness via a broken heart, will continue with that mentality.

And I am not saying we should laydown and be steam rolled. The difference is how you percieve the threat. Do you hate this enemy, or love it? Hating it would corrupt you in the same way they are. Loving your seeming enemy simply means remaining pure while you defend yourself however you have to. You do not sink to their level mentaly.

Dromiceius 05-15-2005 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghmonkey
(for intelligent people it did, unfortunately the weak minded still need the god crutch).

We're all fundamentally the same, just with different influences. I think most would agree with that, and I think it's important that we go at it from that kind of attitude if we're ever going to "destroy" religion.
Quote:

how can someone get through to the nutter churchies out there ?
If you want people to listen to what you have to say, it's best to say it in a way that will alienate as few people as possible. After all, if someone believes in god, then it's obvious that to them, an idea's palatability is infinitely more important than it's validity.

To get through to people, you have to create the illusion that you're not trying to get through to anyone. Some people can't stand to agree with the guy who claims he knows better than some 90% of the world. :lol1:
It's a control thing. They don't want to agree because that would be like saying "that guy who says he's better than me is, in fact, better than me."
And that would be entirely unacceptable.

Then there are the outright anti-intellectuals: the morons who can't be convinced that pro wrestling is fake.
What else can I say?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyne
The Christian ranks are diminishing slowly. This is evidenced by the ever-growing numbers of people like you and me.

Do the statistics agree? It seems to me that there are more Christians now than there were 5 years ago.

Itsdarts 05-15-2005 01:37 PM

Religion is a Meme, its a mind virus that promises an after life with some supreme being, Aunt milly, and/or 72 virgins etc... Mankind doesn't like the idea that life ends into a darkness, lights out, that it. This is how religion has been able to spread even to the apparently intellectual minds of our times. Until this meme can be stopped, I'm affraid it will continue. It spreads more and more with the ever increasing world population and ever increasing missionary missions continuing throughout the world. South America is the current hot bed of the spreading of this virus. The meme is spread through fanciful promises and gastly fears of the alternative for failure to accept the meme. Stop the meme, stop the religion.

bustr 05-15-2005 01:59 PM

See here:

http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4602

kyman 05-15-2005 02:21 PM

Quote:

just with different influences
Generally the same, to me, equates to oneness, out of which you have compassion.

Power and religion are two intertwining influences. Another big influence on america's children these days is indifference, which results in ignorance, which then ripens someone to be prey for the above influences.

We have no one leading us who is consistent and trustful as the church claims. It's not that what the church sells is honest and straight, but that they do it so consistently and powerfully. The essence of the religion I agree with, LOVE. So many of us are suffocating inside, dying for just a little bit of love and guidance. Structure. So with minds lacking knowledge and wisdom, and no other source of love to welcome us, we allow our hearts to latch onto this cult mentality, which promises the ease of our suffering.

A force, not driven by money/ego/devil some would say, must take it upon itself, making a 'conscious' decision in this world to bring about balance/justice/peace. Right now we are lead in ignorance, with only our own hearts as a guide, which even then we are sometimes mislead via the mind.

No one will topple religion, which is fear based, and thus has an identity that will struggle to survive until it is eradicated, which cannot happen on this planet now. No one who is conscious in love would kill off the person who has fallen to illness/suffering. Conversion is the only way, which will easily be done to our children who's instincts are pure and prone to love. Anyone will convert if they are awakened, if not just from the far right to a more balanced fair non combative perspective. Children are intelligent. If we provide the right knowledge, they will come to the proper conclusion.

I feel bad right now for the kids learning creation over evolution.

kyman 05-15-2005 02:25 PM

Interesting.

Kolriss 05-15-2005 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArghMonkey
Yikes !!! The churchies are taking over !

Only in America. The phenominon you describe is specifically peculiar of your nation. We in Australia have no problems with it. I'm a Christian, and I'm quite sick of all the whining done by American sects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArghMonkey
Its amazing, with science uncovering the truths of this universe it should have destroyed religion (for intelligent people it did, unfortunately the weak minded still need the god crutch).

Don't 'spose it occured to you that the major scientific advancements of the modern age were mostly performed by Christians or Deists? :lol1: Ahhh the irony. See, it's atheists like yourself who fail to realise that approximately half of all scientists on the planet are members of one religion or another. What you should be fighting against is idiocy, not religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyne
Basically, all you have to do is wait. The Christian ranks are diminishing slowly. This is evidenced by the ever-growing numbers of people like you and me.

:lol1: You say that as if Christianity were the only religion on the planet. Actually, it's quite the opposite - Christianity and Islam are both on the rise. It's other religions that are falling.

Itsdarts 05-15-2005 08:04 PM

Quote:

Don't 'spose it occured to you that the major scientific advancements of the modern age were mostly performed by Christians or Deists?
Care to back this up? Otherwise its nothing more than rhetoric.
Quote:

Ahhh the irony. See, it's atheists like yourself who fail to realise that approximately half of all scientists on the planet are members of one religion or another. What you should be fighting against is idiocy, not religion.
"Aproximately" Half? Care to back this up as well? and is that "Approximately MORE or LESS than Half.... Its christians like yourself who fail to realise that approximately half of all scientists on the planet are NOT members of one religion or another. This statement is JUST as true as yours, without anything to back it up. You started it, back it up. It's my opinion that there is no "source" that goes around asking every single scientist what his/her religious affiliation is. At best it is speculation....

Kolriss 05-15-2005 08:13 PM

Quote:

Care to back this up? Otherwise its nothing more than rhetoric.
Let's see... off the top of my head, and in no particular order:
Copernicus
Galileo
Einstein
Franklin
Newton

With actual research, I could give you a decent list.

Quote:

"Aproximately" Half? Care to back this up as well?
As a sample:
In 1997, the British Journal "Nature" published a poll indicating that, in a random sample of 1000 scientists

- About 40% of the scientists believed in a personal God.

-15% considered themselves agnostics

Quote:

and is that "Approximately MORE or LESS than Half....
Generally the statistics tend to be between 40 and 50% as theistic.

Quote:

Its christians like yourself who fail to realise that approximately half of all scientists on the planet are NOT members of one religion or another. This statement is JUST as true as yours, without anything to back it up.
Very true. I don't believe I ever contested that. I believe you, however, are intentially avoiding my main point:
Quote:

What you should be fighting against is idiocy, not religion.
But of course, you always have a bone to pick when it comes to religion, don't you Its?

kyman 05-15-2005 10:03 PM

Kolriss, does it matter if the religion functions adequately enough not to cause the molestation of children too much, or to make people insecure about their sexuality, or to make gays feel like they are sinful creatures?

Can you deny the hypocrisy of a religion who's soul goal is to abolish false notions of self, but then encourages it with rank/title/power, sin/guilt/identity, fear/punishment?

Christ would not want followers, but for every soul to lead himself and others.

Christianity is a cult mentality, unconsciously driven by our egoic desire to survive and gain power, and escape from fear. A cult mentality is nothing more than a cult identity, which means people are perpetrating a false sense of self. Its the instinct of running in packs, but what they are protecting is not life ( which is eternal and needs not protection ) but their identity. They are protecting their identity and the beliefs they found it on.

The only true religion their is is being yourself. The only way to truly be yourself is to have communion with your peers/environment. You CANNOT have communion with your peers if you percieve them as seperate and in sin. Rather than commune with something which you percieve as threatening, identity would conquer/force.

Quote:

What you should be fighting against is idiocy, not religion.
Good point. And I do not mean to assault you in any way with my comments above.

But what is idiocy? It is ignorance. An idiot is a word which stems from idiocy. No one is an idiot. There are only varying levels of ignorance of self/love.

One cannot be aware of self/love, leaving behind ignorance, if they are trapped in a fearful identity. Religion of all sorts preach about sin and punishment. This simply idea of sin and punishment almost singlehandly binds us to ignorance. No one is sinful. No one should be punished. All their acts of ignorance are blind, and if you were to show them their self/love, they would fall into balance.

Identity is an obstacle between unity, as it is a concept which sets us apart from others. Saying, I am a christian, and 'believing it', is counter productive to the entire excercise of christianity.

On that point, how often do you hear the phrase 'good christian'. Not just a christian but 'good' christian. I am 'afraid' I am 'not' a 'good' 'christian'!? Yet you are always what you are. Religion is just a game for identity to play, hindering the souls true purpose in this world. You cannot know your soul if you only know yourself as your idea of identity.


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