a love story

[nebulan]

i was asking what is the levels

advanced// veteryan// skilled

tell me all off them and from first to last

please

[Antone]

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

The site have noted that the story is pure fiction; a fable, with a moral.
I doubt it. The writer must have really patterned the story to the story of their love lives – Richard Bach and Leslie Parrish.

I suspect you're right. In fact, I've always gotten the impression that that was the way of most of his books. I suspect even Johnatan Livingston Seagull has a lot more non-fiction stuffed into it than most people might suppose. It's just has a heavier camaflouge than a lot of his work.

But then isn't that the way with any author? We generally get our ideas from somewhere, and if we're smart we write about the things we know--because that's what we tend to write with conviction and authority about. And except for a very few of us, we don't have the ability to write convincingly about anything else. The best detective novels are generally written by people who know a little something about police work and detectives. If not first hand, then from observation and other research.

I've always suspected that Richard's research tends to be his own life... as the story's narrator admitted "part fiction but a lot of non-fiction" too. For example, as I understand, he really does fly a plane... just as his characters in "Illusions" and other stories. That's one reason he can capture such a realistice feel with such a minimalistic writing style... it's based on what he knows.

[femme_fatale!]

I think so too, Antone. I for one can't help myself but to always find relation of my real life experiences and other people close to my heart with what I am writing. As I was reviewing the essays I wrote in the past, one very common to them all is that they are all in reflective form in the sense that I always try to find meaning inherent to those experiences. This is precisely the reason why the philosophical thoughts of existentialism and phenomenology attracts me a lot.

Bach is one of my favorite writers and although he claimed that his novels are but fictions, they are nonetheless still very much in touched with reality. I don't know but people who speak very intelligently don't appeal so much to me if all he is saying are but 'reflections' from his head without having experienced those things. A soldier who has been assigned to battles or wars bears more credibility than a professor with doctor's degree who is delivering a speech about war and/or peace to the nation.

Experience, still, is the best teacher. And Bach learned from his experiences, making his novels one of the greatest stories of all times.

[Antone]

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Bach is one of my favorite writers... I don't know but people who speak very intelligently don't appeal so much to me if all he is saying are but 'reflections' from his head without having experienced those things. A soldier who has been assigned to battles or wars bears more credibility than a professor with doctor's degree who is delivering a speech about war and/or peace to the nation.

I think I come at it from a different direction. What I like best about Bach's work is that he expresses interesting ideas in interesting ways. For me, the fact that he seems to bases them on experience is just something that makes his sparse writing style work so well. Occasionally, I even think it gets in the way, as in the story The Bridge Across Forever. I had the strongest feeling, while reading this, that it was based on real events (or perhaps more accurately real characters). Obviously not totally real, but none-the-less based on them. And that interferred occasionally with my ability to enjoy the story a bit, even though the events rang "true to life".

I suspect this is because I am an INTP personality... if you're familiar with the brigs/meyer indicater test. I = is for Introvert (as opposed to extrovert). N = is for intuitive (as opposed to sensing). And T = is for Thinking (as opposed to feeling). Essentially what it all means is that I tend to live inside my head more than I do outside of my body.

Anyway, besides the book I mentioned above, I've only read Johnathan Livingston Seagull and Illusions. Both of which have spots on my all-time favorites shelf. Any other suggestions of works of his with a similar feel?

Originally Posted by Antone

Johnathan Livingston Seagull

I have that book, it was a gift. I never read it because I always thought only smart people like to read. So I am going to read it in front of my dad because I am tired of him telling me how stupid I am. Perhaps I will look smart or something bored and ignorant maybe.

[femme_fatale!]

Ah, maybe your dad is just not smart enough to recognize and see how smart you are.

btw, Antone, I also have a book about brigs meyer indicator test and other personality tests. Generally, I am an INTJ but sometimes INFJ. Being Introvert and Intuitive and a Judge is somewhat constant to me but sometimes I am ruled by my Thinking and sometimes by Feelings.

[femme_fatale!]

I belong to the extreme introverts. I always get perfect score for this part. I am not a touchy person so I'm more on intuition. Funny, my friends could hug me a lot but I don't hug them. I am more like my mom who shows love and concern but not by way of hugging and embacing and kissing and the like, in contrast to my dad. I am fairly a good judge when dealing with people too, at least with the help of my background in psychology and philosophy. Many people say these fields are too much in contrast with each other. But only if they learn to integrate the two, I'm sure they would get to understand things better. Thinking and feeling is 50/50 ratio; sometimes I could just be apathetic about the world and sometimes very sensitive and emotional; here lies my moodiness I think.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Ah, maybe your dad is just not smart enough to recognize and see how smart you are.

Or maybe because he is wrong and can't think of anything better to say quicker. That's usually what happens with age I think.

[Antone]

Originally Posted by Misfit

I have that book, it was a gift. I never read it because I always thought only smart people like to read. So I am going to read it in front of my dad because I am tired of him telling me how stupid I am. Perhaps I will look smart or something bored and ignorant maybe.

One of the good things about Bach's books is that they are rather quick and easy reads. It usually takes me about a week to a month to read a book, and I finished Illusions in a little over 2-3 hours, as I recall.

[Antone]

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Ah, maybe your dad is just not smart enough to recognize and see how smart you are.

btw, Antone, I also have a book about brigs meyer indicator test and other personality tests. Generally, I am an INTJ but sometimes INFJ. Being Introvert and Intuitive and a Judge is somewhat constant to me but sometimes I am ruled by my Thinking and sometimes by Feelings.

It's great to meet someone who's familiar with this. Most people aren't but I keep trying anyway, probably because I enjoy explaining it to people.

I'm very strongly INT... and about even between P/J. Which basically means that I like to know where everything in my room is, but I hate to vacuum or dust.

[Antone]

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

I belong to the extreme introverts. I always get perfect score for this part. I am not a touchy person so I'm more on intuition. Funny, my friends could hug me a lot but I don't hug them. I am more like my mom who shows love and concern but not by way of hugging and embacing and kissing and the like, in contrast to my dad. I am fairly a good judge when dealing with people too, at least with the help of my background in psychology and philosophy. Many people say these fields are too much in contrast with each other. But only if they learn to integrate the two, I'm sure they would get to understand things better. Thinking and feeling is 50/50 ratio; sometimes I could just be apathetic about the world and sometimes very sensitive and emotional; here lies my moodiness I think.

I'm an extreme introvert too. Not to mention being reclusive and shy around women--which makes it hard to meet anyone interesting... or more accurately anyone interested in me. Doesn't help that I'm getting older now, either. None of the cute young girls are interested any more, and all the cute older ones seem to be married already. And I've always been very territorial when it comes to other men's women. Apparently anther strike when it comes to the dating world, because women are almost always with someone, if not a man then other women, and I feel guilty about busting in on them too.

I've never been very comfortable with public displays of emotion--so you could say I'm not very touchy feely either. Although private displays are another matter.

So (out of mild curiosity) how heavy is your background in psychology and philosophy? I took a little psychology in college and found it pretty interesting. I didn't really become interested in philosophy until a couple years ago when I started reading up to give me ammunition for a debate on an absolutism/relativism grouplist. I was arguing for relativism, but when I started reading about it, I discovered that the normal philosophical notions of relativsim weren't quite what I had in mind. So I ended up reading a lot more, and developing my own personal [theory of life], which is still in progress--and probably will be until I die.

[femme_fatale!]

I'm just new in these fields too. I took up psych and philo as my double major in the undergrad and then later on concentrated in philo instead, but I still carry with me my interest in trying to know more and understand human behavior so I still read and watch things related to psychology. It was just actually my fourth year in these fields.
Basically I was just in search of my identity as I really really had this very very strong identity confusion and at the same time I was trying to find meaning of my existence. Gosh! If I didn't do it, I could have long been an ash dissoved to the ether, forever flying everywhere but nowhere. You know, those suicide things.
Anyway, untill now I still tell my mom that if I will die, I want to be cremated and then they would just throw my ashes in the air/space above that I may be one with the creation instead of being burried and lamented six feet under the ground.

What is good in getting to know more oneself is that if the person is able to accept even his/her weaknesses and deformities, s/he could always change for the better only if s/he's willing to do it.
Well yes, I was very very shy too. But that was then. I could always capture people's attention with their adorations but I feel uncomfortable being on the spotlight. But there's no sense hiding now, I had to face it. Fate?

[Antone]

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Basically I was just in search of my identity as I really really had this very very strong identity confusion and at the same time I was trying to find meaning of my existence. Gosh! If I didn't do it, I could have long been an ash dissoved to the ether, forever flying everywhere but nowhere. You know, those suicide things.

I've never been given to confusion, or particularly suicidal feelings. About the closest to it that I've ever come was when I became old enough to realize that the people in my family had "problems" . I was the youngest of 8 children, in a highly religious family--and I clearly had an unrealistic notion of how "perfect" my family was. There wasn't any particular moment when it happened, but still the gradual realization that they weren't perfect came as quite a shock to my psyche.

I've had what would seem to me to be a fairly large number of friends who either were suicidally depressive or committed suicide. Perhaps it's just that there are that many people with those kinds of feelings out there; or maybe they're drawn to me. I know I'm drawn to them. There's something about that kind of thinking that fascinates me; especially when it's used to fuel an acerbic wit. Guess I just have a dry sense of humor.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Anyway, untill now I still tell my mom that if I will die, I want to be cremated and then they would just throw my ashes in the air/space above that I may be one with the creation instead of being burried and lamented six feet under the ground.

My father has in his will that he wants to be cremated and have his ashes spread on his vegetable garden. A friend of his even wrote a poem about it... something about how we'll all eat the food that he nurished and then when we use the toilet we'll say, "there goes Dwyane again."

Dwayne is my dad's name.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

What is good in getting to know more oneself is that if the person is able to accept even his/her weaknesses and deformities, s/he could always change for the better only if s/he's willing to do it.

Yes, but be careful what you wish for. When I was younger I wasn't shy at all, I was actually very agressive and extroverted. Now, I'm not sure this was what caused the change, but I idolized my brother who was very quite "cool" and tried to emmulate him. Sometimes I wonder if I succeeded too well. Actually, I suspect there was some childhood trauma that I've suppressed and can't remember that caused my shyness. Like I said, I certainly wasn't a shy child. And I'm still not particularly shy in some circumstances--such as when I'm around authority figures or celebrities. They don't faze me the way they do some people. Course, I've never had a desire to meet or talk to them the way some people do either, so my quietness around them may resemble shyness. .

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Well yes, I was very very shy too. But that was then. I could always capture people's attention with their adorations but I feel uncomfortable being on the spotlight. But there's no sense hiding now, I had to face it. Fate?

Sorry, I think I might have missed something here. Are you saying you're in the spotlight now in some way?
(I know this is a 'youcrazy' smiley... but since they don't have a smiley scratching its head in puzzlement, I use this as a substitute.)

[femme_fatale!]

Originally Posted by Antone

I was the youngest of 8 children, in a highly religious family--and I clearly had an unrealistic notion of how "perfect" my family was. There wasn't any particular moment when it happened, but still the gradual realization that they weren't perfect came as quite a shock to my psyche.

I have elder brothers and sisters but I don't know exactly how many of them. Daddy was such a hard core playboy!
Considering only my family in mommy's side, I am the eldest of the three children.
I had this tendency to be idealistic and perfectionist since I was still a little child so I often always easily get embarassed with people and the world, especially my own family.

I've had what would seem to me to be a fairly large number of friends who either were suicidally depressive or committed suicide. Perhaps it's just that there are that many people with those kinds of feelings out there; or maybe they're drawn to me. I know I'm drawn to them. There's something about that kind of thinking that fascinates me; especially when it's used to fuel an acerbic wit. Guess I just have a dry sense of humor.

I used to wear different masks to different people. I used to always want to please my friends. Basically I tend to be the buffon and the joker of the group, a saver during those times when they are down and depressed. That was when I was still suffering from strong identity confusion.
But when I fairly got to know more myself and started to become true to myself, in a way some of them started to feel uneasy when with me because I already don't act the way I used to be. I tend to be always serious and take delight speaking of philosophical things, etc. They just don't enjoy things that includes lots of thinking.

My father has in his will that he wants to be cremated and have his ashes spread on his vegetable garden. A friend of his even wrote a poem about it... something about how we'll all eat the food that he nurished and then when we use the toilet we'll say, "there goes Dwyane again."

Dwayne is my dad's name.

That's nice. At least he is always remembered!

Sorry, I think I might have missed something here. Are you saying you're in the spotlight now in some way?
(I know this is a 'youcrazy' smiley... but since they don't have a smiley scratching its head in puzzlement, I use this as a substitute.)

Are you thinking being in the spotlight like those of movie actors and actresses or singers, etc?
No I'm not. I was awarded as a best actress back in the undergraduate days though.
What I mean is that I could just easily capture people's attentions and just face them as contrast before that I would just prefer to stay at the background.

[Antone]

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

I have elder brothers and sisters but I don't know exactly how many of them. Daddy was such a hard core playboy!

When I was younger, I didn't mind being the youngest. Not that there weren't certain aspects where I think I got the bum deal... like getting a lot of hand-me-down clothes when I was younger; my parents knowing all the tricks kids can uses, because my older siblings had done it all before; and my parents being a little less enthusiastic about encouraging me in various activities than they might have been with older siblings.

But there were also some good things about it. I got away with a lot more than my older siblings, because they'd lost their young parent nervousness; by the time I was a teen, many of my sibs had moved out of the house and financially my parents weren't struggling as much so my dad was a little freer with money and there was less competition for using the car.

I always figured that things pretty much evened out in the long run. The only thing that really bothered me about being the youngest of so many kids was that by the time I was in high school, my parents (espeically my mom, who didn't share me and my dad's trait of looking about ten years younger than we are) felt more like grand parents than parents. And my grand parents were either dead or so old that it was hard to relate to them any more.

I always thought it would have been nice to experience what it was like to have parents who were young enough for me to think of them simply as adults instead of old people.

I also wondered occasionally if I wouldn't have fared better in the shyness department if my parents had been less religiously oriented. I remember my mother "reprimanding" me for asking my sister's girl friend for a kiss when I was ... oh, maybe 8 years old. "That's not the way a proper young man behaves," she said.

Might I have maintained my youthful male aggression (and perhaps even become a ladies man, so to speak) if she's said something like, "awh, how cute." or "Isn't that sweet?"

I suspect it doesn't matter where we're born or what our parents are like, however. It isn't so much that some parental types are inherently better than others, but rather that there will always be some childhood personality types that will not do as well with certain parental personality types... and it's just the luck of the draw as to whether your personality type fits well with your parents.

And since there's nothing you can do about it anyway, you might as well sit back, enjoy what comes and just try to make the best of it. I've tried to make that my life's philosophy, anyway.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

I often always easily get embarassed with people and the world, especially my own family.

I think I might know what you mean.

I was active in sports when I was in high school. Although they tried to make sure I had transportation, neither of my parents made any real effort to come to any of my events. And the one time I do remember them coming, (11th grade, I think it was) they seemed so much older than any of the other parents that I felt a bit self conscious about them being there.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

I used to wear different masks to different people.

I used to feel something like that as well. I felt like I could be a very different person around different people. Not so much that I intentionally acted differently, but that they brought out distinct aspects of my personality.

I still experience that a little bit, but not nearly as much as I used to.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

I tend to be the buffon and the joker of the group, a saver during those times when they are down and depressed.

I've never been mistaken for the "life of the party." The larger the crowd is, the more I slip into the background--but the smaller the group is (and the more private or intimate the setting) the more assertive I tend to become. When there's just two of us, I frequently say as much or more than the other person (assuming they're willing to talk about something that I think is worth talking about, of course. )

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

...some of them started to feel uneasy when with me because I already don't act the way I used to be. I tend to be always serious and take delight speaking of philosophical things, etc. They just don't enjoy things that includes lots of thinking.

It's always a good thing to be yourself... as long as you like who you are. And if you don't, I figure you're in trouble anyway.

I know what you mean about taking delight in speaking about philosophical things... and how most people don't.

If you've read some on the Myer Briggs type indicator test then you may alreadly realize that this is because only about 1 in 4 people are iNtuitive types. and of those only half are Thinking types.

NTs are the temperment type that is generally the most likely to find amusement in thinking about things like this so you're likely to meet 8 people before you come across one that enjoys a similar discussion. This means that most people either find little enjoyment in such conversations, and those that do enjoy them have learned that most people do not, so they are often reluctant to start an "interesting" conversation with someone they don't know. Which means (espeically if you're an quiet, introvert, like I am) that you probably meet about 10 people who are NTs before you chance to strike up a conversation that's worth having, with one. That's some 80 new people you have to meet to find one interesting person.

I probably haven't meet 80 new people (outside of a work related setting, which really doesn't count) in the last 10 years.

Originally Posted by femme_fatale!

Are you thinking being in the spotlight like those of movie actors and actresses or singers, etc?

Well, yes... I wondered if you meant something more along those lines.