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Ethics and Morality What's right and what's wrong? Discuss issues on ethics, morality, and justice.

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  #1  
Old 11-18-2008, 07:21 AM
imagine imagine is offline
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Are there any honest people over the age of about 3?

Are there any honest people over the age of about 3? Or are they all over about this age playing loose with reality due to dangerously compromising their very being?

My hope is that honesty still exists out there in post-3 year-olds or will come back to those who have apparently prostrated themselves before a world of lies and lying
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Old 11-18-2008, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine
Are there any honest people over the age of about 3?
Yes.

































Ok, I was lieing.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2008, 08:49 AM
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Honesty, the pure sort, is not a good choice for this world - do you really want to tell a mother her son she was so proud of in his military uniform ran at the first sign of shooting, was caught by the Taliban and brutally tortured and hung to die on a tree for three days as a warning to other US soldiers, then he died being eaten alive by scavengers. How honest do you really think we should be imagine?
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Last edited by Ben Burkhill; 11-18-2008 at 08:55 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2008, 09:22 AM
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well, symptom777

that's a weird puzzle: 'cause it's almost like you gave an honest answer (taking your post as a whole)- are you the last honest man on Earth? What if lying is an illusion- that truth speaks regardless (you know: in Heaven "everything is made known")...
food for thought...?
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2008, 09:34 AM
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Quoting Ben... "Honesty, the pure sort, is not a good choice for this world"

No way.

It's the ONLY choice: what exists is all that exists- there's nothing else other than what exists; if you choose "fairyland" you get - well- if you pretend there is no train rushing toward you while standing on a railway track- you get run over
-so it is with un-truth-
not advisable

but how did humans ever become vulnerable (i.e. apparently able to be threatened by others into fudging reality? It should be impossible surely)


Quote; " - do you really want to tell a mother her son she was so proud of in his military uniform ran at the first sign of shooting, was caught by the Taliban and brutally tortured and hung to die on a tree for three days as a warning to other US soldiers, then he died being eaten alive by scavengers."

You do not have to say this to his mother, unless pressed? No need to lie here. Truth ALWAYS is better: I discovered the secret to everything: reality (its all there is- by definition!) "Seek and you shall find". No earthly power has any hold over what is true. Truth delivers more than you can imagine- I found this.

Truth is not subservience to some earthly dictatorship- truth is often highly subversive to those who would dictate! Dictatorships rely on fudging; on obfuscating.

Truth is what allows you to make Neo in the Matrix look like an amateur...

Quote: "How honest do you really think we should be imagine?"

Answer:

infinitely.

Reward: eternal life.

try it!
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2008, 09:47 AM
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The more information human being get, the more disguised...

does Roswell real? I'm lie that i don't know
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:06 AM
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Here's a testable theory about Roswell:

atmospheric nuclear testing in the Nevada desert left a "micro shimmer" vibration in the atmosphere.

"Flying saucers" such as the well documented group of silvery saucers seen from an airliner are like optical images but are mechanical vibrational patterns in the atmosphere caused by the introduction in to that body of air of the wake-turbulence caused by the airliner.

So the "whitewash" by the Saucer Commission was half right: the apparent rapid movement of the saucers and multiplicity of them were formed in a manner like an optical effect; but were according to a theory I thought of actual interference effects between a residual vibration in the air and the turbulence caused by the aircraft.

So "vibrational images" of the aircraft were formed near Mt. Rainier (this mountain's profile effect on the body of air also perhaps playing a role) at a distance from the aircraft.

This theory says that these "flying saucers" are high energy standing waves.

This would explain why an air force jet that intercepted a saucer on another occasion was downed- the high energy standing wave would have earthed (like lightning) to the nearby jet.


The official claims re: Roswell were that Rhesus monkeys in a metal cage that had been sent up under a helium balloon (for altitude effects testing on mammals pre-space program) explained so called "alien" bodies?

My theory suggests that what happened is: the balloon cage encountered one of these high-energy standing waves which "earthed" to the cage containing the monkeys; causing the metal of the case to become "twitchy" (like it was alive)(as a witness of debris on the ground claimed) and the monkeys' features became stretched (as if they had been in a centrifuge) causing the "alien" apearance.

Virtually every reliable witness account of saucers in the 1947 - 1952 or so period may be explainable in this way? Just a theory, but able to be tested (the sea has the shimmer pattern just before it becomes completely smooth when it is calming. An enclosed body of shimmer-sea plus an introduced source of turbulence could be organised so as to see if vibrational standing waves are projected by interference between the background shimmer vibration and the introduced moving turbulence?)
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:13 AM
imagine imagine is offline
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I came across a very interesting book:

"the Truth About Flying Saucers" by Aime' Michel

First published in Great Britain 1957
Robert Hale Limited
London
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:19 AM
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Actually, I don't really associate lieing with (dis)honesty.

I don't think, for example, that telling someone that there new born baby is beautiful when it's (like all babies) fuggin ugly, is dishonest.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:20 AM
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Thank you imagine; i'm interesting it;i'll find more to read further!
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2008, 10:41 AM
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Notes from the book that may be worth googling:

June 24th, 1947 (Not seen from an airliner- mistake in previous post) saucers seen from a private aeroplane; "nine gleaming discs" seen "travelling at a teriffic speed" by Mr. Arnold, near Mt. Rainier. The story "caused quite a sensation" and was reported around the world...

other reports from pilots

during the war reports occured of"foo fighters" (balls of light that "played tag" with pilots just off their wingtips....)

lots of other accounts including Captain James Mantell's (U.S. AIr Force pilot) pursuit of a "gigantic" saucer; "flying cigars"; Professor Clyde Tombaugh's sighting (discoverer of Pluto); theodelite tracking of "cicular objects" at Holloman Air Base Apri 6th, 1948; Lieutenant George F. Gorman case, the "Saucer Commission"; European sightings, Africa; Villacoublay; the Lietenant Plantier theory; "the Marignanne cigar'; Beirut, Lagny; "the Le Bourget saucer"; "whip-lash trails"; "the progression in jerks"....
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:44 AM
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One of the coolest things in the book is the Lieutenant Plantier theory; and the idea that if a flying object pulled the air along with it at progessively lower speeds proportional to distance from the craft, then it would not have a heating problem re: the air as the air closest to the craft would be travelling almost as fast as the craft
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:56 AM
imagine imagine is offline
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Beauty is more than in looks

if one knew one was fibbing then that's the answer, surely?

What is "tact"? Can it be honest?

What about the pressure people are put under to dodge reality?

My brother has a saying "you're telling the story"; or how about "it is you who say it" as a way to not have to pretend to agree with someone? Or just "my thoughts are my own" (Frodo?)(um "Our business is our own" is what they said when arriving at the village of Bree in "The Lord Of The Rings: The fellowship of the Ring"). Or why not just say what you think; but do not offend people unnecessarily? (But do not compromise on reality.)(Why shouldn't I say to Hitler: "Excuse me, but I don't think what you are doing is a good idea" ? )

Why are people so afraid of the truth? I hope for a world where it is safe to be truthful.

Is "tactful" necessarily dishonest?
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine View Post
Are there any honest people over the age of about 3? Or are they all over about this age playing loose with reality due to dangerously compromising their very being?

My hope is that honesty still exists out there in post-3 year-olds or will come back to those who have apparently prostrated themselves before a world of lies and lying
I don't know what you are talking about, my kid lied to me when she was under 2 just recently. She did it right in front of me then said she didn't do it. Then when you tell her to stop doing something she will say OK OK as though she agrees with you and plans to stop, she doesn't stop. She just says that hoping I will shut up and leave her alone so she can continue being bad.
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine View Post
Quoting Ben... "Honesty, the pure sort, is not a good choice for this world"

No way.
Yes way.

Quote:
It's the ONLY choice: what exists is all that exists- there's nothing else other than what exists; if you choose "fairyland" you get - well- if you pretend there is no train rushing toward you while standing on a railway track- you get run over
-so it is with un-truth-
not advisable
I am not saying deny reality, telling the whole truth all the time is counter productive and causes a lot of people a lot of pain. Be circumspect - not everyone can handle the real truth, sometimes it is better to boost an ego than it is to allow a complete deflation - be sensitive to appropriate truth telling.

Quote:
but how did humans ever become vulnerable (i.e. apparently able to be threatened by others into fudging reality? It should be impossible surely)
Humans are evolved sentient animals right? The truth is they have been lied to by religion for thousands of years and most of them believe they are not evolved from animals, but the animal (via the amygdala) controls their behaviour to the degree they fight, flight or fuck instinctively. Now tell these people the truth that their understanding is wrong (despite the fact that they have the evidence of nearly everyone agreeing with them) and that they need to transcend their animal self. Then tell them that they live in a social system designed to manage populations and that none of it is really real, their house loan is not real to life, money they pay their loan with is not real to life, the pressure to get to their job, have a car, own a wide screen TV is all not real - it is all part of the lie that is the social world.

What is the real world to you imagine?

Quote; " - do you really want to tell a mother her son she was so proud of in his military uniform ran at the first sign of shooting, was caught by the Taliban and brutally tortured and hung to die on a tree for three days as a warning to other US soldiers, then he died being eaten alive by scavengers."

Quote:
You do not have to say this to his mother, unless pressed?
What's that? Unless pressed? It is then you would tell her the truth huh? Then where does your compassion and empathy for the spiritual well being for others come in - are you that cold that you would tell her?

Quote:
No need to lie here.
So you would omit the truth - tell her a small part of the story but not be entirely honest with her, omission is misleading, this makes it false declaration, this is the same as a lie.

Quote:
Truth ALWAYS is better
For those that can handle it imagine, for those that can handle it.

Quote:
: I discovered the secret to everything: reality (its all there is- by definition!) "Seek and you shall find". No earthly power has any hold over what is true. Truth delivers more than you can imagine- I found this.
I found it too and sought to share this knowledge with the goodness in my heart in an attempt to bring others to this self same freedom of being that I know you experienced yourself, that was ten years ago, what I found was people are not ready and it is very dangerous to bring people to the truth when they are not ready. I brought some people around to the truth and it near killed them, only the very few are capable of handling the truth and they are truly grateful when you deliver it to them, but most people can't afford it psychologically, philosophically and even financially.

Quote:
Truth is not subservience to some earthly dictatorship- truth is often highly subversive to those who would dictate! Dictatorships rely on fudging; on obfuscating.
I totally agree with you on this but nearly everyone is ensconced in the lie and the truth destroys the system and the life that these people have built within the lie - when someone garners the truth from you they turn from the system as it is a lie, they lose their job, they don't care but their family does, their wife who struggles to pay the bills, their children who cannot afford to go to school anymore because they don't have the money for it anymore because you won't work for the lie anymore because it isn't real. They also come into risk of being committed by those that love them because those that love them think they have gone crazy, psychiatrists drug them and hospitalise them, mortgage holders seize their fake assets etc etc .... the truth is reserved for those lucky enough to be in the position to handle what it means to be free of the lie, most people can't afford to know the truth so they reject it - be very sensitive to who you try to convert to the reality of life imagine, it is no simple matter and requires much consideration.

The truth shall have to be revealed slowly, incrementally and you'll have to have a whole new system of management ready to handle the fallout of the old system collapsing - it is far more deep than just knowing the truth.

Quote:
Truth is what allows you to make Neo in the Matrix look like an amateur...
I know - consider me Morpheus then, take it slowly, learn how to reach people without smashing their lie lives with the power of the truth. Remember in the film that it was very dangerous to bring people around to the real world after a certain amount of time had been spent in the matrix - they can't handle it when they have lived in the matrix for so long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Quote: "How honest do you really think we should be imagine?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine
Answer:

infinitely.

Reward: eternal life.

try it!
I did - I get it.

How long have you known about this truth imagine? The first three years holds the promise of a new world - the next seven years requires careful consideration as to why this truth from you is being ignored - the answer is it doesn't matter what the truth is when the vast majority of people can't afford the reality you and I promote. It will take many, many generations to reverse the lie imagine, do what you can but be careful, people won't thank you for bringing them the light when it means being outside the social circles they grew up in and believed - you'll shatter their world and it will smash at their feet and they will blame you for it and so will their family. Be careful with the truth for it is a very powerful thing. They can't handle the truth yet.

Empathy and compassion.
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Self control is the chief element in self respect and self respect is the chief element in courage.

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Last edited by Ben Burkhill; 11-18-2008 at 01:45 PM.
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