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Old 09-26-2006, 09:52 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Members of Islam Do NOT Want To Contend With The Wrongs Committed By Members of Islam

Members of Islam Do NOT Want To Contend With The Wrongs Committed By Members of Islam:

INTRODUCTION:

Today many members of Islam claim others have misconceptions about their religion. Why? Because they can not deal with reality, the facts, in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). Of course this sounds familiar as many of so called Christian groups are also in denial with respect the wrongs committed by their religions, such as Inquisitions, Murders, burning-at-the-stake, genocides, persecutions, etc. They like the members of Islam are in a state-of-denial as they can NOT face the facts since the facts would show their religion is NOT correct. So both groups are in denial with respect the word of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, the Creator of all there is. Why? Because their actions clearly show they are in opposition to the true word of God; hence, are false religions.

One member of Islam list 4 claimed misconceptions that none-Muslims have about Islam as follows:

Islam tolerates the killing of innocents because:
[1] Muslims can be terrorists

[2] Muslims engage in `holy wars' (jihad)

[3] Islam spread by the sword

[4] it has a harsh and cruel judicial system

He goes on to say, <<"This misconception is one of the most widely held misconceptions about Islam today. And yet in the Qur'an, the Creator unambiguously states (translation),

Sura 17:[33], "Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law)." [(YUSUFALI)]. Note, items in [ ] were items not included in the member of Islam's statement, but necessary to show where what he said came from.

Now let's look at each of these denials on the part of Islam that some of their members call misconceptions.

CLAIMED MISCONCEPTION, MUSLIMS CAN BE TERRORISTS:

Many members of Islam are in denial and refuse to accept the fact that Muslims can be terrorist such as the one who called this a misconception and improperly quoted Sura [AL-ISRA (ISRA', THE NIGHT JOURNEY, CHILDREN OF ISRAEL)] 17:33.

Yet we all know of many terrorist acts by Muslims. Let's look at just a short list of some of these:

Let's consider the facts as continually revealed in the world news that shows if any thing that the newspaper editor may have been a little low when he said 95 percent of the violence in the world was caused by Muslims. Here are some instances of terrorism by members of Islam:

(1) World Trade Center - 9/11 - unprovoked attack and mass murder by Muslims.
(2) London Subway Bombing by Muslims
(3) Continued mosque bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(4) Suicide bombings in Israel by Muslims.
(5) Suicide bombing of a wedding reception in Jordan by Muslims.
(6) Daily roadside bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(7) Train bombings in Spain my Muslims.
(8) Riots and car burnings and murders in France by Muslims.
(9) Suicide bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(10) Car and truck bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(11) Unprovoked murder of 8 Israelis and the kidnapping of 2 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Lebanon and Israel by Muslims.
(12) Unprovoked murder of 2 Israelis and the kidnapping of 1 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Gaza by Muslims.
(13) Bombing of restaurants and cafes in Bali, Indonesia by Muslims.
(14) Bombing of a trains in India by Muslims.
(15) Take over of a grammar school in Russia resulting in the deaths of many students by Muslims.
(16) Attempted shoebombing of a plain by a Muslim.
(17) Conspiracy to bomb about 10 planes going from UK by Muslims.
(18) Attempted murder of several Indian politicians in Kashmir by Muslims.
(19) Many violent acts by Muslims in Afghanistan.
(20) Murder of a girl by Shiite Muslims in Iran.
(21) Conspiracy to bomb trains in Germany - as previously posted for you.
(22) And the list could go on and on, get it?

Now let's look at how much of Islam went into denial about the events of 9/11 a day in infamy, <<" The September 11, 2001 attacks (often referred to as 9/11) consisted of a series of coordinated terrorist attacks upon the United States, predominantly targeting civilians, carried out on Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

That morning, 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda[1] hijacked four commercial passenger jet airliners. Each team of hijackers included a trained pilot. Two planes crashed into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, one plane into each tower. Both towers collapsed within two hours. The pilot of the third team crashed a plane into the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia. Passengers and members of the flight crew on the fourth hijacked aircraft attempted to retake control of their plane from the hijackers; that plane crashed into a field in rural Somerset County, Pennsylvania. 2,976 people died in these attacks.

The attacks began with the hijacking of four commercial airliners departing from East Coast airports, fueled for flights to California. With jet fuel capacities of nearly 24,000 U.S. gallons (91,000 liters) or 144,000 pounds (65,455 kilograms),[2] each aircraft effectively became an incendiary guided missile (the same order applies for take-off, for hijacking, and for subsequent crash):
* American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the north side of the North Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC) at 8:46:30 a.m. local time (which was Eastern Daylight Time, or 12:46:30 UTC).
* United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into the South Tower at 9:02:59 a.m. local time (13:02:59 UTC), an event covered live by television broadcasters from around the world who had their cameras trained on the buildings after the earlier crash.
* American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon at 9:37:46 a.m. local time (13:37:46 UTC).
* United Airlines Flight 93 crashed in a field in southwest Pennsylvania just outside of Shanksville, about 150 miles (240 km) northwest of Washington, D.C., at 10:03:11 a.m. local time (14:03:11 UTC), with parts and debris found up to eight miles away. The crash in Pennsylvania is believed to have resulted from the hijackers either deliberately crashing the aircraft or losing control of it as they fought with the passengers.
[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]

But as usual, much of Islam did NOT want to accept the responsibility for the effect or consequence. In fact, many Muslims came up with absurd conspiracy theories of one kind or another and tried to pin the blame for the cause on the Hebrews, how absurd, which of course amounts to untruth and false accusation. Many Muslims always try to pin the blame on others for what other Muslims cause, but not all. One group of honest Muslims admitted that evil Muslims were the cause and issued an apology, <<"We are so Sorry for 9-11, By Kamal Nawash in 2004, This September 11 marks the third unforgettable anniversary of the worst mass murder in American history.

After September 11, many in the Muslim world chose denial and hallucination rather than face up to the sad fact that Muslims perpetrated the 9-11 terrorist acts and that we have an enormous problem with extremism and support for terrorism. Many Muslims, including religious leaders, and ?intellectuals? blamed 9-11 on a Jewish conspiracy and went as far as fabricating a tale that 4000 Jews did not show up for work in the World Trade Center on 9-11. Yet others blamed 9-11 on an American right wing conspiracy or the U.S. Government which allegedly wanted an excuse to invade Iraq and ?steal? Iraqi oil.

After numerous admissions of guilt by Bin Laden and numerous corroborating admissions by captured top level Al-Qaida operatives, we wonder, does the Muslim leadership have the dignity and courage to apologize for 9-11? If not 9-11, will we apologize for the murder of school children in Russia? If not Russia, will we apologize for the train bombings in Madrid, Spain? If not Spain, will we apologize for suicide bombings in buses, restaurants and other public places? If not suicide bombings, will we apologize for the barbaric beheadings of human beings? If not beheadings, will we apologize for the rape and murder of thousands of innocent people in Darfour? If not Darfour, will we apologize for the blowing up of two Russian planes by Muslim women? What will we apologize for? What will it take for Muslims to realize that those who commit mass murder in the name of Islam are not just a few fringe elements? What will it take for Muslims to realize that we are facing a crisis that is more deadly than the Aids epidemic? What will it take for Muslims to realize that there is a large evil movement that is turning what was a peaceful religion into a cult?

Will Muslims wake up before it is too late? Or will we continue blaming the Jews and an imaginary Jewish conspiracy? The blaming of all Muslim problems on Jews is a cancer that is destroying Muslim society from within and it must stop.

Muslims must look inward and put a stop to many of our religious leaders who spend most of their sermons teaching hatred, intolerance and violent jihad. We should not be afraid to admit that as Muslims we have a problem with violent extremism. We should not be afraid to admit that so many of our religious leaders belong behind bars and not behind a pulpit. Only moderate Muslims can challenge and defeat extremist Muslims. We can no longer afford to be silent. If we remain silent to the extremism within our community then we should not expect anyone to listen to us when we complain of stereotyping and discrimination by non-Muslims; we should not be surprised when the world treats all of us as terrorists; we should not be surprised when we are profiled at airports. Simply put, not only do Muslims need to join the war against terror, we need to take the lead in this war.

As to apologizing, we will no longer wait for our religious leaders and ?intellectuals? to do the right thing. Instead, we will start by apologizing for 9-11. We are so sorry that 3000 people were murdered in our name. We will never forget the sight of people jumping from two of the highest buildings in the world hoping against hope that if they moved their arms fast enough that they may fly and survive a certain death from burning. We are sorry for blaming 9-11 on a Jewish or right wing conspiracy. We are so sorry for the murder of more than three hundred school children and adults in Russia. We are so sorry for the murder of train passengers in Spain. We are so sorry for all the victims of suicide bombings. We are so sorry for the beheadings, abductions, rapes, violent Jihad and all the atrocities committed by Muslims around the world. We are so sorry for a religious education that raised killers rather than train people to do good in the world. We are sorry that we did not take the time to teach our children tolerance and respect for other people. We are so sorry for not rising up against the dictators who have ruled the Muslim world for decades. We are so sorry for allowing corruption to spread so fast and so deep in the Muslim world that many of our youth lost hope. We are so sorry for allowing our religious leaders to relegate women to the status of forth class citizens at best and sub-humans at worse.

We are so sorry."[source - Free Muslim Coalition, http://www.freemuslims.org/news/arti...p?article=148] >>.

Now we have seen the facts on terrorism and that it is NOT a misconception, let's look at 'Muslims engage in `holy wars' (jihad)' that the same member of Islam claims is a misconception.

CLAIMED MISCONCEPTION, MUSLIMS ENGAGE IN 'HOLY WARS' (JIHAD):

Many members of Islam are in denial and refuse to accept the fact, the reality, with respect 'Holy Wars' or 'Jihad.' Let's look at the facts as shown in the statement of the World Islamic Front on February 23, 1998 as follows:

<<"Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlur Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh.

Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.

The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since Allah made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter." [source - World Islamic Front http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm and Osama bin Ladin]

An encyclopedia has this to say on Jihad, <<" Jihad, sometimes spelled Jahad, Jehad, Jihaad Djehad or Cihad, (Arabic: ????? gihad) is an Islamic term, from the Arabic root ghd ("to exert utmost effort, to strive, struggle"), which connotes a wide range of meanings: anything from an inward spiritual struggle to attain perfect faith to a political or military struggle to further the Islamic cause. Individuals involved in the political or military forms of jihad are often labeled with the neologism "jihadist"." [source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia].>>.

The ultimate goal of Jihad according to Osama bin Ladin is everyone becoming a Muslim which by-the-way is his definition of peace. <<"Peace is everybody becoming a Muslim, and you do not believe that there should be peace, until this happens. So therefore, you and the like will make sure that there is no peace until everybody becomes a Muslim, and there should be no peace until everybody becomes a Muslim. I just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on what you meant when you said your agenda was peace. A lot of people could have mistaken you for meaning things like coorperation, compromise, compassion, mutual understanding, and things like that. You don't mean that, and it would appear that a certain amount of other Muslims don't mean that either."[source - a reporter that interviewed Osama bin Ladin in 1998]>>.

But if everyone becomes a Muslim, then no one would merit the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael because he does not approve of false doctrines, myths, and legends. Let's look at the facts:

[1] All genuine (true) Christians are under obligation to try and lead others away from sin, be it homosexuality, murder and disturbance of world tranquility such as the criminal organization of Hezbollah practices, or any other. Have you not read,

Luke 15:10, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

James 5:20, "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." (AV).

[2] You can not serve two masters, sin that is of the Devil, and the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael at the same time as clearly shown at:

Matthew 6:24, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (AV).

Luke 16:13, "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (AV)

[3] Some mentioned 'individual rights,' and we were all created free individuals capable of either doing right or wrong. But continuing in sin will NOT merit us the approval of the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, get it? In fact, the scriptures say,

1Peter 4:18, "And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (AV) so we should NOT even 'toy' with continuing sin such as homosexuality, murder and disturbance of world tranquility such as the criminal organization of Hezbollah practices, and false religious doctrines such as those of Islam and apostate (counterfeit) Christianity.

Now let's consider the alleged misconception of 'Islam spread by the sword.'

CLAIMED MISCONCEPTION, OF 'ISLAM SPREAD BY THE SWORD.':

Many of Islam claim that others have a misconception of Islam because they claim it is spread by the 'sword', but let's look at the facts from Muslim sources themselves.

Muslim forces overran the Byzantine Empire by force, i.e., use of the sword, and eventually forced all to convert to Islam or get out, i.e., they stole the land and people belonging to the Byzantine Empire. Here is the proof in their own words, <<" It was not until the 10th century that the Turks reverted in any great number. Islamicization was accomplished largely through the missionary efforts supported by the Samanids, whose Muslim state of Central Asia straddled the river Oxus. At the end of the 10th century a group of Turks destroyed the hegemony of the samanids. Subsequently, those victors were themselves vanquished by a mighty group of nomadic Turks led by the descendents of a chieftain named Seljuk. Following a significant victory in 1040, the Seljuks divided the spoils of war. Seljuk's grandson Tughril received direction of the Seljuk thrust into the Islamic heartland. A combination of sound leadership, military prowess, unbridled energy and zeal, as well as a deteriorating economic and political situation in the Islamic territories in their path, enabled the Seljuks quickly to make themselves masters of the Iranian plateau, taking Isfahan in 1043. Sweeping down from that region into the eastern part of the Fertile Crescent in 1055, Tughril took the Caliphal seat of Baghdad.
As Seljuk leadership became more politically ad culturally more sophisticated, and identified its interests with those of the urban elites it had conquered, the more it became necessary to keep the predatory Turcomans out of the settled areas. The Turcomans were encouraged to satisfy their thirst for plunder and adventure in the north against Christian kingdoms in Georgia and Armenia. There they joined other Muslim warriors for the faith (ghazis) in the Holy struggle for the greater glory of Islam.
It was in Byzantium that the ghazis found a rich lode worthy of their efforts. Its own internal difficulties compounded the threat posed by the ghazis. Fifty years of strife between the bureaucracy and the army had weakened it. However under Alp Arslan, the Seljuks chose to maintain a tranquil northern flank whilst moving against the Shi'ite Fatimids in the south and the Byzantines and the Seljuks reached an accord in 1070.
This stalemate with Byzantium ended the following year, when the Emperor Romanus Diogenes gathered a large army and marched eastward across Anatolia. In august 1071 the two armies clashed at Manzikert near lake Van. At first the battle went in favour of the Emperor; but the tide swung and Romanus was captured (some sources say through treachery), and his army fled. Anatolia was now open to permanent Turkish settlement to become the Seljuks of Rum (Arabic term for Roman empire)." [source - http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0075.htm under the title of Seljuks of Rum]

Also, they tried to steal much of Europe by force of the sword to convert them to Islam per <<" This clearly shows how they love to obfuscate and distort the issue of whose land it is, but this has always been the Standard Operating Principle (SOP) of the greedy members of Islam. Let's look at the facts, as previously shown by an Australian newspaper, 95 percent of the violence and destruction we see in the world so far in 2006 has been caused by greedy members of Islam, such things as train bombings, their different sects bombing each other's mosques and killing each others members, suicide bombers, road side bombs, bus bombings, kidnapping of other peoples soldiers to ignite violence, going irrationally insane over stupid cartoons, etc.

Of course this has been their SOP from the beginning as shown by what they did in the Eighth Century as one example, In 711 the Visigothic were ruling in Spain and in no way attacking Islam, yet Islam attacked them without any real provocation. Yes, of course they claimed they had provocation, i.e., they claimed that last Visigoth king, Roderick had seduced the young Florinda, daughter of Julian, Visigothic governor of Ceuta in north Africa an apostate (counterfeit) Christian and they were out to avenge this; but clearly two things stand out, First, it was none of their business, Second, there is no evidence that this ever occurred.

Now Let's look at proof that the greedy members of Islam were just out to grab land that belonged to others,"[source - Islam Does Not Know Difference Between Cause and Effect or Result: by Iris the Preacher]>>, <<" In 711 CE Tariq ibn Ziyad, the governor of Tangiers, landed in Gibraltar with around 10,000 men, mostly Berbers (indigenous North Africans). He had some of Roderick's Visigoth rivals as allies. In the same or following year in the Cadiz province, Roderick's army was decimated and he is thought to have drowned as he fled. The Visigothic survivors fled to the north of Spain, and within a few years, the Muslims had taken over the rest of the Iberian Peninsula bar a few areas in the Asturian Mountains bordering France."
[source - http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/seerah/0075_popup9.htm]>>.

So we can readily see Islam's claim that this is a misconception is simply NOT supported by the facts, the reality.

Now let's consider the alleged misconception of 'it has a harsh and cruel judicial system.'

CLAIMED MISCONCEPTION, 'IT HAS A HARSH AND CRUEL JUDICIAL SYSTEM.':

Let's look at the facts, mostly through examples.

First, as we can see from the previous section on Turkey, Islam clearly does not believe in freedom of religion. In fact, Islam even wants to put to death members of Islam that wish to convert to Christianity. Let's look at an Associated Press account of their attempt to put an individual to death for becoming a so called Christian, <<" KABUL, Afghanistan - An Afghan man facing a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said Wednesday.

Abdul Rahman, 41, has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country's Islamic laws. His trial started last week and he confessed to becoming a Christian 16 years ago. If convicted, he could be executed.
But prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari said questions have been raised about his mental fitness...." [source - Associated Press]>>. Yet in Europe and North America, members of Islam want freedom of religion, but when they gain control, out goes freedom of religion.

Let's look at other examples from actual world news accounts:

KANO, Nigeria (Reuters) - A court in the northern Nigerian city of Kano has fined 45 motorcycle taxi riders for transporting women, in violation of a new rule to comply with Islamic Sharia law, a court official said on Friday. The ban on women passengers, brought in last year to make Kano state traffic laws compatible with Sharia, has caused controversy in the city, which is predominantly Muslim but has a sizable Christian community. Hisbah committees, or volunteers who help uphold Sharia, have clashed with motorcycle taxi riders caught with women passengers. Women are supposed to ride in special motorised...

And,

Sudan: Criticising Islam & death threat over a woman
On September 26th members of Islamic government of Sudan issued a fatwa on best-selling author Kola Boof, a Sudanese woman's writer who lives in California. The details of the fatwa: Kola Boof has been found guilty of "Blasphemy and Treason" Ms. Boof is to be beheaded. The matter was ratified by the following: Hassan Turabi (National Islamic Front), Ali Muhammad Taha (NIF), Sharif al-Tuhami (NIF) Tanzim Wasti (London's Sudan Committee), Saad Faqih and Mohammed Sobieh.
Kola Boof points out that she has not been Muslim since around 10 and that the men issuing the fatwa are not qualified to do so. Ms. Boof states that she has been receiving "death messages" and warnings to "shut up" from Sudanese government officials by telephone since February 2002. Leader of the NIF, Hassan Turabi, under house arrest by Khartoum Regime has been especially threatening Boof.
A diplomat from Sudan's government, Gamal Ibrahaim, wrote a scathing article about Kola Boof in London's largest daily Arabic newspaper, "Al-Sharq al- Awsat in which he basically called Kola Boof, "a blasphemer of Islam" "mentally unstable"..."a prostitute" and "a liar".
Kola says that after nearly a year of constant intimidation tricks, death threats and an attempt on her life, they should not only drop the fatwa but do it publicly, so that she could believe it. [source - http://www.secularislam.org/women/bu....htm#Pakistan]

And,

Nosrat Abouii, a woman who was stoned in Yazd prison managed to escape while she was being stoned but was arrested immediately by the government and put in jail.
According to Islamic Sharia, women are buried up to their armpits for stoning, while men are buried up to their waist. Earlier, on September 25, Goli Nik-Khou was stoned to death after serving her 15 -year sentence in the town of Naqadeh, western Iran.
At the moment there are four women - Ferdows, Ashraf, Sima and Shahnaz - in prison waiting to be stoned to death.
[source - http://www.secularislam.org/women/bu....htm#Pakistan]

As one member of Islam expressed it as reported by BBC [British Broadcasting Corporation].
<<"I have been wrestling with the rights and wrongs of attitudes expressed by Muslim spokesmen, both here in the United States and around the world, since the World Trade Center attack last year. I am not a Muslim, or an expert on Islam, but I have been trying to understand how the world looks from an "Islamic" or "Arabic" perspective. I've wanted to understand why so much public commentary by Muslim spokesmen sounds wrong to my Western ears. I've concluded that much of the Islamic world is doing a poor job of facing up to some grim realities, and doing a good job of blaming everyone else (especially the US and Israel) for their self-inflicted injuries.

So here is my message to the Islamic world. I believe you need to do the following:

1) Acknowledge that every nation of significance that has embraced Islam as the state religion, and has tried to govern according to the laws of Sharia, is a miserable failure. Egypt, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia: These are totalitarian nations that repress their own citizens every bit as savagely as did the former Soviet Union. Citizens in these countries have no freedom, no rights, and no hope for a better life. They cannot speak freely. They can be arrested, imprisoned, tortured, or killed for any reason. The governing authorities can even order mass slaughter of their own people at will (witness Syria).

Part of the reason for the abject failure of these nations is the tribal origins of their peoples. After communism, tribalism has been responsible for more slaughter and suffering than any other single cause in history. Tribal communities are, by definition, barbarian. True civilization arises only when tribal limitations are relegated to the dustbin of history.

Another reason for their failure is Islam itself. The laws of Sharia assume that the highest principle of governance is justice, not freedom. Justice, in this case, means that decisions are made by religious authorities in consonance with the teachings of the Koran. There are no checks on the power of these authorities, as their mandate is given as coming straight from God. Thus Sharia forbids the notion of rule by the people, with laws being made by the people and their elected representatives.

In contrast, Western civilization holds freedom as the highest principle of governance. Government is by the people, for the people. Laws are made by the people and their elected representatives. Western civilization, and especially American civilization, is based on the concept of preserving freedom by limiting powers through a system of checks and balances. Laws are, deliberately, man made, not taken as coming from God, although religious (Judeo-Christian) teachings are influential in guiding legislation.

The bottom line is that no successful civilization of significant size can exist without the separation of church and state. The weight of history has demonstrated this over and over again, as the utter failure of Islamic nations shows. Sharia prohibits this separation, therefore Sharia must be discarded.
[source - http://muslimpundit.blogspot.com/200...t_archive.html , Muslimpundit.com]

As can readily be seen, it is NOT a misconception, Islam does have a harsh and cruel judicial system which is also unfair and against basic human rights.

CONCLUSION:

None of the alleged misconceptions are misconceptions, but unfortunately for humanity, they are all so true.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:11 PM
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:17 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Hi Question

Glad you liked my post.

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Old 09-26-2006, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by iris89
Hi Question

Glad you liked my post.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

fuck you both
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Old 09-26-2006, 10:24 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Hi TheBoss

Why did you not like my factual research product?

I am a very good Biblical and Religious researcher, I dig out the real facts, and then present them in and honest and very factual presentation that anyone interested in truth would find excellent.

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Old 09-26-2006, 10:26 PM
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fuck you both
I think he just validated your post Isis. BTW, theboss, if you want to show your religion is not exactly what Isis just described, all you had to do was explain where it was wrong. All saying what you did does is shows a refusal to view claims by the opposing side with an open mind. Personally, if I was you, I would have said something more along the lines of this :

Someone going specifically against the precepts of a religion and still blaming their acts upon their religion does not make the religion invalid. It only makes the person misguided. You need to understand that people who are out to do wrong will use any justification they can find in order to paint themselves in a good light. I pity these people and only hope that Allah may forgive us all for our hatred toward eachother.
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by iris89
Hi TheBoss

Why did you not like my factual research product?

I am a very good Biblical and Religious researcher, I dig out the real facts, and then present them in and honest and very factual presentation that anyone interested in truth would find excellent.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Ok

First of all if you search all the holly book you won’t find any thing says kill innocent,
Children, women, Or force people to embrace Islam, but you will find suras like

Surah2/256

There is no compulsion in religion. True guidance is distinct from error. But
Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the strong
Handhold that will never break. And Allah is All hearing, all knowing


And by the way pope says in his statement that when Muhammad was weak he
Gave this surah but when he became strong he forget it and this is flagrant
Evidence that he is ignorant about islam because this surah was given before
He death

Surah18/29

Say: “(it is) the truth from your lord” now whosoever will, may believe, and
Whosoever will, may disbelieve.
For the wrongdoers we have prepared a fire
(whose flames) will encircle them like the walls of a tent. If they ask for a drink
they shall be showered with water (as hot) melted brass, which will scald their
faces. How terrible a drink, how evil the restingplace


surah15/2to3

(the day will surely come when) the disbelievers will wish that they had been
Muslims.
Leave them to eat and to take their entertainment, and to be beguiled by hope;
For they will come to know


Surah88/21to23

Therefor, remind, for you are one to remind:
You are not at all a warder over them
But who turns away and rejects the faith,
Allah will punish him with a most terrible torment



There is no chance for Islam to be spread by sword, because Islam is before any
Thing else is dogma, something you believe in and work for and if muslims were
Forced to be muslims they might be but they won’t be able to build the biggest
Impair in the world which lived for 1000 years and ended just when corrupted
Sultans started to play with god rules and change them to fit their corruptions
Plus in our history, when the crusade happened, Arab Christians fought side by
Side with the muslims to protect their country so if Islam asks for killing those
Christians won’t be exist anyway because they will be dead according to Islam
Rules (( which exist only in your mind ))

Muslims Christians and Jews has always been living with each other through all
History, and the only century which problems started to take place is the twentieth
Century which western started to take advantage of the collapse of Ottoman empire
And all the Arab country were occupied by the west and all the Arabs paid huge
Price for this “Christians tolerance” only Libya paid one million youth to gain its
Independence
And the problem is still exist with the occupation of Palestine which supported first
By UK and later by USA
That is the reason for 9/11 not the rules of Islam,
I bet anyone can give me example form the Qru’an and Muhammad speech to kill
Innocent, if those people did wrong Islam is innocent because Islam is not the people
Islam has its sources and who ever break its rules will be punished whether was
A muslim or not in the dayafter

Muhammad famous rules during battle

Don’t kill women (if they are not fighting)
Don’t kill children
Don’t kill old people
Don’t bull trees or destroy plants
Don’t kill animals except for food


So if this his rules during wars, how can be his rules during peace????

But know you tell me

Biblical Law. Matthew 5:17-18 says quite clearly that Jesus demands Christians follow Old Testament law completely, to the smallest possible point. Why don’t they?

Infanticide. The modern Christian churches of the world tend to gloss the fact that God is a child killer—the 10th plague in Egypt—and say that Jesus set this right. Ignoring for a moment that the crucifixion is just one more child killing to fulfill God’s will, why does Jesus say he also will kill children in Revelation 2:23

Fact or Allegory. The Bible says the Earth is between 6,000 and 8,000 years old, that it was created in 7 days, and that Man is made of dirt and Woman a piece of Man. Most churches today say that this is allegory. What passages of the Bible support it all being just allegory?

Needle’s Eye. Jesus said rich men don’t go to Heaven easily and even implied that it wasn’t possible. Why are so many people with money and property Christian if they are probably going to Hell?

Apocrypha and Biblical Revisions. The Bible of 400 CE and the Bible today differ by dozens of chapters and thousands of parts. Which Bible is the word of God and why does man edit it

Born Fallen. Even in this global age there are millions of persons who never hear the Good News. We are born in sin. Do some go to Hell just because of their birth circumstances?
Inquisitions, Crusades, Witch Trials. Historians put the number of those killed and executed by Christian churches at between 2 and 15 million; mostly Jews, witches/pagans, and Muslims. Do Christians retain this murderous nature? If not, why not?

Turn the other Cheek. Jesus instructs the saved to love and to forgive even deadly insults (Matthew 5:44: “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,” et cetera). Why do no prominent Christian leaders to follow this?

Free will. Freedom to choose is given to man by God. Man has two main choices: 1) accept the Love of God and, upon death, go to paradise for eternity, 2) Refuse God and, upon death, just die, be utterly damned. How is that freedom of choice when it is the same thing as a gun to your head?

Well the fact is the bible was witten by humans hands after 250 years (approximately)
And not the same bible which was given to Jesus, simply because life include more
Than love and hate, life needs to be organized by real law

and just to remind you that bibals became hundreds in a time that
church interfered and reduced them to four can you tell me how they
reached this number, can any christians write his own bibal and how
can the church chose some and throw others?????






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  #8  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:10 AM
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theboss theboss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galphanore
I think he just validated your post Isis. BTW, theboss, if you want to show your religion is not exactly what Isis just described, all you had to do was explain where it was wrong. All saying what you did does is shows a refusal to view claims by the opposing side with an open mind. Personally, if I was you, I would have said something more along the lines of this :

Someone going specifically against the precepts of a religion and still blaming their acts upon their religion does not make the religion invalid. It only makes the person misguided. You need to understand that people who are out to do wrong will use any justification they can find in order to paint themselves in a good light. I pity these people and only hope that Allah may forgive us all for our hatred toward eachother.
sorry for that, I'm really in bad temper today
I think I need this
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss
sorry for that, I'm really in bad temper today
I think I need this
No biggy, happens to us all Feeling better?
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  #10  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iris89
Hi Question

Glad you liked my post.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

If you are that bibalic then you can explain the original sin which my mind cannot
Digest it, why ((god)) should send his ((son))????????? To be killed savagely
To free the sinner from something they didn’t make, although He is a (( god ))
And can free those people who made nothing, without any effort

And why god sent many prophets to those people while they are still sinner he
Should send his (( son ))!!!!!!!!!! First then those prophets

And may you tell me in very clear language what is the original sin and what
will happend to those who didn't follow Jesus ((Jewish))


I hope you will be more glad when you read my post
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  #11  
Old 09-27-2006, 04:44 AM
Kris Kris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboss
fuck you both
I do not support you vulgar language however you are right.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:00 AM
Kris Kris is offline
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Your writing proofed that you are not a friend in Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by iris89
[1] Muslims can be terrorists

[2] Muslims engage in `holy wars' (jihad)

[3] Islam spread by the sword

[4] it has a harsh and cruel judicial system
Both Judaism and Christianity as well. Their history proofed it.

Quote:
Here are some instances of terrorism by members of Islam:
(1) World Trade Center - 9/11 - unprovoked attack and mass murder by Muslims.
(2) London Subway Bombing by Muslims
(3) Continued mosque bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(4) Suicide bombings in Israel by Muslims.
(5) Suicide bombing of a wedding reception in Jordan by Muslims.
(6) Daily roadside bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(7) Train bombings in Spain my Muslims.
(8) Riots and car burnings and murders in France by Muslims.
(9) Suicide bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(10) Car and truck bombings in Iraq by Muslims.
(11) Unprovoked murder of 8 Israelis and the kidnapping of 2 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Lebanon and Israel by Muslims.
(12) Unprovoked murder of 2 Israelis and the kidnapping of 1 by Muslims to provoke turmoil and violence in Gaza by Muslims.
(13) Bombing of restaurants and cafes in Bali, Indonesia by Muslims.
(14) Bombing of a trains in India by Muslims.
(15) Take over of a grammar school in Russia resulting in the deaths of many students by Muslims.
(16) Attempted shoebombing of a plain by a Muslim.
(17) Conspiracy to bomb about 10 planes going from UK by Muslims.
(18) Attempted murder of several Indian politicians in Kashmir by Muslims.
(19) Many violent acts by Muslims in Afghanistan.
(20) Murder of a girl by Shiite Muslims in Iran.
(21) Conspiracy to bomb trains in Germany - as previously posted for you.
(22) And the list could go on and on, get it?
This kind of list can be done for Judaism and Christianity as well.
Quote:
CLAIMED MISCONCEPTION, MUSLIMS ENGAGE IN 'HOLY WARS' (JIHAD):
You have fergoten about holy wars of others monoteistic religions. So refrish your memory or start to learn.
Quote:
As can readily be seen, it is NOT a misconception, Islam does have a harsh and cruel judicial system which is also unfair and against basic human rights.
Could you support your thesis by showing the numbers of killing, rape and robberies per 100 000 of population in Ryad SA and Wahington USA?
Where the life of the people and properities are more safe?
Quote:
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
And this is a big lie.
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Old 09-27-2006, 05:09 AM
Kris Kris is offline
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[quote=theboss]
Quote:
There is no chance for Islam to be spread by sword,
Not truth: was as others religions.
Quote:
Innocent, if those people did wrong Islam is innocent because Islam is not the people Islam has its sources and who ever break its rules will be punished whether was A muslim or not in the dayafter
Wrong: If a religion supported the action of those people and used the results for own religious profit, that treligion is co-guilty.
Quote:
Muhammad famous rules during battle:
Donít kill women (if they are not fighting)
Donít kill children
Donít kill old people
Donít bull trees or destroy plants
Donít kill animals except for food
Those rules are a death law: e.g. Ottomans do not follow theim.
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  #14  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:21 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iris89
Hi TheBoss

Why did you not like my factual research product?

I am a very good Biblical and Religious researcher, I dig out the real facts, and then present them in and honest and very factual presentation that anyone interested in truth would find excellent.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Did your summary include what was done to Jews - that a church was erected upon the Jewish Temple site when Christianity gained power, blaspheming the truth of the OT laws and justice itself? If not, you are listing Islam's emulation - the Muslims also forgot which was the Jewish homeland, and like European Christianity, failed to restore and allow Jews the return to their motherland. Bottom line: you both can't be right - but you both can be wrong. Now go on - deny it and justify it - same as the Muslims do?
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  #15  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:25 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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QUOTE]
Innocent, if those people did wrong Islam is innocent because Islam is not the people Islam has its sources and who ever break its rules will be punished whether was A muslim or not in the dayafter [/quote]


So why no Fatwah for your Neo-Prophet Osama - is it because 9/11 was a Zionist Plot, and no Jews were killed that day?
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