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  #1  
Old 11-04-2006, 07:39 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Some Muslims Falsely Claim The Bible Has Been Corrupted

Some Muslims Falsely Claim The Bible Has Been Corrupted

This claim is of course just spurious as shown by none other than Muhammad (pbuh) himself in the Quran where he clearly showed the Bible of his day was NOT corrupt. Some in Islam claim the Bible has been corrupted, but the facts do not support such a finding. Muhammad (pbuh) did not arrive on the scene until over 500 years after the entire Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament, were finished. This would mean that the Bible, including the gospels, injein, and the Torah he had read to him as he did not know Hebrew or Koine Greek, the only two languages the Bible was then available and evidence seems to indicate he could not read or write, would be the Bible of his day, around 622 AD. He never said the Bible oh his day was corrupt as clearly shown in the Quran, using three different translations/versions of the Quran, the YUSUFALI, the PICKTHAL, the SHAKIR. Why three different translations/versions in parallel? To avoid the false charge that one is being used to the exclusion of the others do to a more favorable rendering.

To read the proof article using only the Quran as proof, go to,

http://examining-doctrines.com/forum...?showtopic=392 or

http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstrut...icID=229.topic

Some Muslims Falsely Claim The Bible Has Been Corrupted:

Now go read it and see what the Quran has to say on the subject.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:16 PM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
005.043
YUSUFALI: But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
Of course, turning away and no faith, can also be evidenced by the reverse: they did not turn from the word of God given them directly - nor did they lose faith in that stance. If christians and muslims would not turn away from their own chosen revered ones - why should Jews turn away from what Jews believe was commanded them directly - by God?

It would have been a simple matter to avoid all this confusion - all they had to do is ask God to tell Jews which way they should turn - without any middlemen - exactly as God did before at Sinai. What's the problem - Jews would follow without reservation - anytime!
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2006, 06:13 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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hi everyone

As I have said on another thread,
Quote:
Many apparently do not recognize what true ‘agape’ love is so here is a little insight. I expose false doctrine and prasctices in the interest of love as clearly stated at Matthew 5:44, “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;” (Authorized King James Bible; AV). Exposure of false doctrine and practices is the loving thing as it gives others an opportunity to mend their ways and thereby have an opportunity to win the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, creator of all there is, approval.

It would be most unloving to see another doing things against his/her best interest and NOT lovingly warn him/her. The loving thing to do is warn others which may require very direct and sometimes painful warnings. As one learned man said of love,
Quote:
Love is patient and is kind, love does not envy. Love does not brag, is not proud, does not behave itself inappropriately, does not seek its own way, is not provoked, takes no account of evil. does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things... I Corinthians 13

Love is the power of faith. Faith needs love to be made perfect, because perfect faith results in faithfullness and faithfullness is a work of love. Faith and love go hand in hand because faith wants to believe, just as love trusts, faith sees through the darkness and weathers the storm, just as love endures all things, and faith seeks to put God first just as love always gives. 1 Corinthians 13 :4-7 Our faith is not just knowledge about God but a personal relationship with Him as Lord, and any relationship requires love to succeed, to endure trials and to grow, including our relationships with one another because we are called to be family in the Lord and to love one another. The perfect example of faith powered by love is seen in the life of Jesus Christ, who manifests Gods love ...
Because love is the power of faith we should focus on love, seize it and cultivate it... and we can because God is love, and He imparts that love to us when we draw near to Him as the scripture says... whatever touches what is holy shall become holy Leviticus 6:27, and love is of the Holy Spirit. By faith we draw near to God through sincere prayer, entering into His presence, because when Jesus died on the cross, the temple curtain separating God and man was torn in two from top to bottom... Mathew 27:51 Gods promise says that if we draw near to Him then He will draw near to us, James 4:8 and when He who is Holy draws near to us then our spirits are sanctified by His Holy Spirit as His holiness is imparted to our spirits. If we allow God to fill our hearts with His Holy Spirit then we are filled with the love of God because love is the pre-eminate characteristic of God's holiness. Because God is the source of our love, love is the fruit of faith... Galatians 5: 22
When we submit to the love of God we have combined faith with love and have the power to fulfill the royal law, which is to love the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul... Mathew 22:37-39 If we keep the royal law James 2:8 we are being faithful and are perfecting faith by faithfullness... James 2:22 If we love God we will seek to please Him and keep the royal law because the royal law embraces Gods will and all of His commandments. Without love we can't fulfill the royal law because we can't love the Lord unless we have love. To manifest the love of God is to overcome sin, whereas to not manifest the love of God is to sin. For the royal law is not to know about the Lord, but to love the Lord... and to love one another as ourselves. We can't do one without the other, because we can't truly love God whom we can't see if we don't love mankind who is made in the image of God. When we love one another we are manifesting our love for God whom we can't see by loving His image. If we love one another then we also love God because we can't love the reflection without loving its source. And if we love God we will love Jesus Christ and allow Him to reign in our hearts, keepings all of His commandments John 14:21 by subduing the will and power of the flesh through the power of the Holy Spirit, so that faith working through love does the will of God by turning the thought into reality which pleases Him and fulfills the royal law...
Faith without love is incomplete, residing only in the mind as knowledge, and knowledge of Gods will alone can not perfect us by saving us from sin but allowing Jesus Christ to reign in our hearts. If knowledge of Gods will alone could save us then salvation would have been through the law of Moses or even a Christian law handed down by Jesus, and there would not have been any need for Christ to die for our sins Galatians 2:21 and dwell in our hearts. If Jesus reigns in our hearts then the love of Christ also reigns because He is the manifestation of Gods love. The heart without the love of God does not have Jesus Christ and the soul without the Spirit of Christ is not born again Romans 8:9 and cannot be perfected by being transformed into the likeness of Jesus Christ which is true salvation and the result of faith. But the soul which manifests the love of God has been washed clean by the Holy Spirit Romans 15:16 and manifests the spirit and glory of Jesus Christ...
[source -Author: Simon Strahler, 2004]
Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2006, 01:45 PM
culinarean culinarean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iris89
Some Muslims Falsely Claim The Bible Has Been Corrupted

This claim is of course just spurious as shown by none other than Muhammad (pbuh) himself in the Quran where he clearly showed the Bible of his day was NOT corrupt. Some in Islam claim the Bible has been corrupted, but the facts do not support such a finding. Muhammad (pbuh) did not arrive on the scene until over 500 years after the entire Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament, were finished. This would mean that the Bible, including the gospels, injein, and the Torah he had read to him as he did not know Hebrew or Koine Greek, the only two languages the Bible was then available and evidence seems to indicate he could not read or write, would be the Bible of his day, around 622 AD. He never said the Bible oh his day was corrupt as clearly shown in the Quran, using three different translations/versions of the Quran, the YUSUFALI, the PICKTHAL, the SHAKIR. Why three different translations/versions in parallel? To avoid the false charge that one is being used to the exclusion of the others do to a more favorable rendering.

To read the proof article using only the Quran as proof, go to,

http://examining-doctrines.com/forum...?showtopic=392 or

http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstrut...icID=229.topic

Some Muslims Falsely Claim The Bible Has Been Corrupted:

Now go read it and see what the Quran has to say on the subject.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
Why not just post the main points of your posts in other forums and save us the time. please give us the source material for your ranting, not just links to other rants you have made elsewhere.

I am being critical, but I DO agree with you here. I just get tired of your circular references. If you want me to take you seriously or even read your links, then please summarize the points you are trying to restate and provide links to the source material for your "research".

so far, the only research I have seen from you is the links you provide to yourself. You provide the backing of a whopping zero experts and what you post is in direct opposition, many times, to what I have heard from dozens of actual experts on the subjects. So until you views have the backing of at least ONE recognized expert in the field (and that's an expert as others in the particular field recognize), I cannot and will not take your words as serious research. After all, we only have your word that you are an expert. And in today's day and age, that isn't saying much.
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2006, 06:41 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Hi Culinarean and Everyone

FIRST, Culinarean, I gave you only the main point, yet you ask for,
Quote:
Why not just post the main points of your posts in other forums and save us the time.
SECOND, You then say,
Quote:
source material for your ranting, not just links to other rants you have made elsewhere.
First, I am not ranting.

Second, if you had gone to my full article, you would have found the source material right out of thr Qurran, a sample follows,
Quote:
026.196
YUSUFALI: Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples.
PICKTHAL: And lo! it is in the Scriptures of the men of old.
SHAKIR: And most surely the same is in the scriptures of the ancients.
026.197
YUSUFALI: Is it not a Sign to them that the Learned of the Children of Israel knew it (as true)?
PICKTHAL: Is it not a token for them that the doctors of the Children of Israel know it?
SHAKIR: Is it not a sign to them that the learned men of the Israelites know it?
[[According to the Qu'ran, the revelation God gave to Muhammed can be found in the earlier Scriptures, those of the children of Israel. If this is so, surely the Old Testament should be read by all muslims seeking further confirmation of the truth of the Qu'ranic revelation. Regrettably however, it is rare to meet a muslim who has actually read the Tawrat and the Injil. ]]

002.121
YUSUFALI: Those to whom We have sent the Book study it as it should be studied: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own.
PICKTHAL: Those unto whom We have given the Scripture, who read it with the right reading, those believe in it. And whoso disbelieveth in it, those are they who are the losers.
SHAKIR: Those to whom We have given the Book read it as it ought to be read. These believe in it; and whoever disbelieves in it, these it is that are the losers.
002.122
YUSUFALI: O Children of Israel! call to mind the special favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My Message).
PICKTHAL: O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures.
SHAKIR: O children of Israel, call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations.
[[How could they read the text with a right reading if the text itself was corrupt? How could the Qu'ran confirm a corrupted text in their possession? (2:89) ]]
002.089
YUSUFALI: And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith.
PICKTHAL: And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers.
[Note, Tawart or Taurat is the Arabic translation of Torah or possibly signify the entire Old Testament or Tanach., a Hebrew word.]
THIRD, Your comment,
Quote:
I am being critical, but I DO agree with you here. I just get tired of your circular references. If you want me to take you seriously or even read your links, then please summarize the points you are trying to restate and provide links to the source material for your "research".
which is out of place as I always give sources to either the Bible which is a standard, encyclopedias, historical works, archaeology, news sources, internet sites, etc.

Here is an example from one of my research products,
Quote:
Let's next look at Islam who falsely claim to worship the true God (YHWH) of Abraham, Isaac, and Ishmael, but actually worship the old middle eastern celestial Moon god, "Allah."

Dr. Arthur Jeffery, one of the foremost Western Islamic scholars in modern times and professor of Islamic and Middle East Studies at Columbia University, notes:

<<"The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa">> [49].

The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, states, <<"The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity">> [50].

The Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, states, <<"The name Allah goes back before Muhammad">> [51].

And, <<"The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article "the" and ilah is an Arabic word for "god." It is not a foreign word. It is not even the Syriac word for God. It is pure Arabic.">> [52]

And, Neither is Allah a Hebrew or Greek word for God as found in the Bible. Allah is a purely Arabic term used in reference to an Arabian deity.

Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics I:326, T & T Clark, states:
<<"Allah" is a proper name, applicable only to their [Arabs'] peculiar God.">>'
[53]

<<"Pre-Islamic Arabia also had its stone deities. They were stone statues of shapeless volcanic or meteoric stones found in the deserts and believed to have been sent by astral deities. The most prominent deities were Hubal, the male god of the Ka'ba, and the three sister goddesses al-Lat, al-Manat, and al-Uzza; Muhammad's tribe, the Quraysh, thought these three goddesses to be the daughters of Allah. Hubal was the chief god of the Ka'ba among 360 other deities. He was a man-like statue whose body was made of red precious stone and whose arms were of solid gold.">> [54] (George W. Braswell, Jr., Islam Its Prophets, Peoples, Politics and Power" [Broadman & Holman Publishers, Nashville, TN; July, 1996], p. 44]

<<"The old middle eastern Moon god who has gone by many names is still well venerated. This is shown by "The Archeology of The Middle East" which states, "The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites." [source - The Archeology of the Middle East]"[additional references - "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations" (Berta Segall, The Iconography of Cosmic Kingship, the Art Bulletin, vol.xxxviii, 1956, p.77).; Isaac Rabinowitz, Aramaic Inscriptions of the Fifth Century, JNES, XV, 1956, pp.1-9; Edward Linski, The Goddess Atirat in Ancient Arabia, in Babylon and in Ugarit: Her Relation to the Moon-god and the Sun-goddess, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica, 3:101-9; H.J.Drivers, Iconography and Character of the Arab Goddess Allat, found in Études Preliminaries Aux Religions Orientales Dans L'Empire Roman, ed. Maarten J. Verseren, Leiden, Brill, 1978, pp.331-51); Richard Le Baron Bower Jr. and Frank P. Albright, Archaeological Discoveries in South Arabia, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1958, p.78ff; Ray Cleveland, An Ancient South Arabian Necropolis, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1965; Nelson Gleuck, Deities and Dolphins, New York, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, 1965).; Another Aramaic Record of the North Arabian goddess Han'Llat, JNES, XVIII, 1959, pp.154-55.">>[55].

References:

[49] Islam: Muhammad, and His Religion, New York: The Liberal Arts Press, 1958, p. 85.
[50] Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, I:326, Hastings
[51] Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:41, Anthony Mercatante, New York, The Facts on File, 1983
[52] There is an interesting discussion of the origins of Allah, in "Arabic Lexicographical Miscellanies" by J. Blau in the Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. XVII, #2, 1972, pp. 173-190.
[53] Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics I:326
[54] George W. Braswell, Jr., Islam Its Prophets, Peoples, Politics and Power" [Broadman & Holman Publishers, Nashville, TN; July, 1996], p. 44]
[55] source - There is Only One True God by Iris the Preacher 2005.
[source - Large Religions are False Religions - Their Fruitage, which can be read at,

http://preacher.proboards7.com/index...ead=1161857800 ]>>.
But I notice others do not, so why are you posting this to me when it should be posted to others who rant and give opinions with ‘0’ backup/source?

FOURTH, Your comment,
Quote:
so far, the only research I have seen from you is the links you provide to yourself. You provide the backing of a whopping zero experts and what you post is in direct opposition, many times, to what I have heard from dozens of actual experts on the subjects. So until you views have the backing of at least ONE recognized expert in the field (and that's an expert as others in the particular field recognize), I cannot and will not take your words as serious research. After all, we only have your word that you are an expert. And in today's day and age, that isn't saying much.
I give links so as NOT to use up space on Frost Cloud re-posting long items that I can just give links to that are located right on Frost Cloud or elsewhere.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2006, 02:27 AM
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All you give is links of YOUR posts. And if not 90% of the time most of the posts from so called other "sources" are misplaced and have no connection to what you are trying to "prove". Like the last post you posted on the moon-god has any relation to what youa re talking about. Why do you think this has any relation to what you think or agree with? And dont just say: i have told you before and then post the damn same link you ahve for the last how many weeks....
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Old 11-07-2006, 03:00 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Thumbs up THE MESSAGE TRANSCENDS ANY MESSENGER.

Quote:
<<"The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa">> [49].
The issue is hardly which name or reference is used for God, who predates humans and names. Nor is it which messenger is followed. It is about the message, more than the messenger. And you will see that no names are attached to God's laws (the message) - these stand pristine and are not effected or lessened whichever name is used. The OT also frequently uses the name 'EL', which was a predating generic word denoting God, Lord, High/Mighty One, Sir, etc: it did not effect the OT being the most harkened message to date what represents the Creator. No need to render the Creator as a Political tool, and better that no names be obsessed with.


'I AM THE LORD THY GOD - I HAVE NOT CHANGED' (Exodus).

'GOD SPEAKS IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLES'
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2006, 01:28 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Hi Dragon

You are just plain WRONG and ranting when you say,
Quote:
All you give is links of YOUR posts. And if not 90% of the time most of the posts from so called other "sources" are misplaced and have no connection to what you are trying to "prove". Like the last post you posted on the moon-god has any relation to what youa re talking about. Why do you think this has any relation to what you think or agree with? And dont just say: i have told you before and then post the damn same link you ahve for the last how many weeks....
no more need be said.

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Old 11-08-2006, 04:55 AM
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See cant even answer my simple question. Sad really.
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:18 AM
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Arguing for jew's. arguing for Islam. arguing for christianity.
but all arguing about peacefull refrences!!! arguing none the less, and we wonder why the world can't sort otself out when even a message of love, can become an arguement!!!! don't you just love war????
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:10 PM
iris89 iris89 is offline
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Hi Jimbad

I have an answer for your comment,
Quote:
Arguing for jew's. arguing for Islam. arguing for christianity.
but all arguing about peacefull refrences!!! arguing none the less, and we wonder why the world can't sort otself out when even a message of love, can become an arguement!!!! don't you just love war????
Revelations 12:9-12 gives the answer, “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV).

Your Friend in Christ Iris89
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:42 PM
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Iris89 i hear what your saying, but put the book down. go outside breath a big wack of fresh air into your lungs, go for a long walk and say hello to all faiths, we can be religious without hate, we can keep faith and still have love for people from all nations and religions. the book is a guid and if it dictates a life then we become a prisoner to it, the devil was outraged when god gave man free will as where many of his arcangels, but free will means you decide, you not biblical quotes, although often inspiring.
go visit a vicar or priest the still have freedom of thought, in conversasion the give opinion's like anyone else, remember it's a guid book.
peace is only achived through tolerance and understanding not extremist views.

you friend from accross the pond, Jamie
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2006, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iris89
Some Muslims Falsely Claim The Bible Has Been Corrupted
My kid was doing her homework assignement the other day, giving her version of what verses in the Quran mean.

"Remember Me and I will remember you."

Iris, strictly for research purposes, can you tell me what the verse above means, please?
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Old 11-09-2006, 12:20 PM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbad
Arguing for jew's. arguing for Islam. arguing for christianity.
but all arguing about peacefull refrences!!! arguing none the less, and we wonder why the world can't sort otself out when even a message of love, can become an arguement!!!! don't you just love war????
Not exactly. Look closer, and you soon stop wondering why we can't sort it out. Some 2000 years after the OT emerged, christianity and islam decided to come up with only those fulcrum belief systems guaranteed to be reciepes for disaster: you could'nt imagine more antithetical premises if your worked at it for another 2000 years. And they both succeeded. Its impossible to sort out, so why downplay it as you do?
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Old 11-09-2006, 12:23 PM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit
"Remember Me and I will remember you."
'If you forget Israel I will forget you'?
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