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Ethics and Morality What's right and what's wrong? Discuss issues on ethics, morality, and justice.

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  #1  
Old 01-13-2009, 07:54 AM
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Vegetarian vs Meat Eaters

I don't know what section I should be putting this but...

I've been reading much about vegetarians vs meat eaters. There were a lot of arguments and I'm going to post what I think about it.

Morally, vegetarians can't really justify just because what their eating doesn't "scream" or "feel" gives them the right.
"Plant's have feelings too!" - pretty stupid at first but really, does having the intelligence to show "feelings" makes them more of a living being worth saving than a lifeless looking organism? I heard about doctors saying babies or fetuses don't feel pain.

Well, there are more but I forgot...

Health and economics wise, I think veggies is a good idea. Well... theoretically.

I like the idea of vegetarianism but I can't eat those alone, I need/want meat. I eat veggies a lot and I also eat meat. We all die at some point at least I ate what I liked and with no regret.


Anyway, I just want to know what you guys think.
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:21 PM
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I have to say I disagree with the health aspect.

Meat or meat products have many different parts that the human body needs, since we are Omnivores. Not only do we have the teeth and jaws for grinding meat and plants, but the digestive system too. We need and are built to eat both plants and meats.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:39 PM
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It's not the meat that bad per say, it's the hormones we poison our bodies with, it's the support of factory farms and, consequently, the cruelty to animals. Getting your meat from a local butcher supports smaller busineses which tend to take better care of their animals (and raise them without so much hormone treatment) and is often cheaper. It's a small step that makes a big difference. Buying your veggies from big chains also supports factory farms. "Organic" vegetables don't always have their standards enforced which is a great reason to grow your own garden, situation willing.

I'm trying to cut my meat consumption down to once per week because I think it's better for the heart. With exercise veggies harden the muscles and soften the arteries. Unless you have quasi-political reasons for not eating meat, I'd recommend to keep eating it but to eat it sparingly. Most of us eat meat too often as it is. I'm adamant that we're omnivorous, not herbivores, but the vast majority of our diet should be vegetables/grains/etc. supplemented by small portions of meat and/or dairy. Me, I feel once per week is on the slim side but something I'd like to do, at least for a while.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:07 PM
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Humans need protein to grow and maintain muscle. Your heart is a muscle. If you're not going to ingest animal flesh, you need to be sure you get sufficient protein from other sources.

Humans are very adaptable. A diet of whole grain bread, sweet potatoes, beans and rice, whole milk and olive oil will work pretty well for a lot of folks.

My personal observation is that if more people followed the Sarah Palin example and killed the animals they eat there would be more vegetarians That is a much more intense experience than just ripping the ovaries off a vine or a tree.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
It's not the meat that bad per say, it's the hormones we poison our bodies with, it's the support of factory farms and, consequently, the cruelty to animals. Getting your meat from a local butcher supports smaller busineses which tend to take better care of their animals (and raise them without so much hormone treatment) and is often cheaper. It's a small step that makes a big difference. Buying your veggies from big chains also supports factory farms. "Organic" vegetables don't always have their standards enforced which is a great reason to grow your own garden, situation willing.

I'm trying to cut my meat consumption down to once per week because I think it's better for the heart. With exercise veggies harden the muscles and soften the arteries. Unless you have quasi-political reasons for not eating meat, I'd recommend to keep eating it but to eat it sparingly. Most of us eat meat too often as it is. I'm adamant that we're omnivorous, not herbivores, but the vast majority of our diet should be vegetables/grains/etc. supplemented by small portions of meat and/or dairy. Me, I feel once per week is on the slim side but something I'd like to do, at least for a while.
At least you admit you are a meat and plant eater. I am not saying have meat everyday on every meal, but to refuse to eat meat because you think it is unhealthy is wrong. Yes over eating meat can have adverse effects IF your body has prblems with breaking down the protein(like with me and my kidneys), but some can eat meat all day long and be fine. But over all humans need to eat meat and plants.

I like your post here Cashback. I think it is cool you can cut back so much, I wish I could for my sake(not nessecarly for everyone), only because my kidneys are already damaged(out of my control).
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:15 PM
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I live in California. There are no local butchers.

I'm an unabashed meat-eater and respect the farmer too much to tell him/her how to farm for the same reason they don't tell me how to manage networks.
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  #7  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:54 AM
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I find these vegetarian extremists are the biggest hypocritical type of people.

They say, don't hurt the animals? What will they do then if science finally proves that plants do feel pain. The have reactions when you cut one of their stems, they can also move but not with muscles. In the past, people believed animals don't feel pain. And as with my last post, doctors said fetuses can't feel pain. I think its safe to say, every living thing has the right to live not just because they have "faces" or expressions which matches our idea of pain or feeling.

I also wonder what they would do if they free all those thousands of animals. 2 things I think will likely happen.
1) set them free into the wild and they will die because they aren't fit enough to survive. they also aren't very adaptable to the environment. we were the ones taking care of them in the first place.
2) if they do survive, they will multiply. most are bred to mate and propagate fast, even without the use of chemicals/drugs. and they will occupy a lot of land consuming resources along the way. destroying natural habitat of other animals who were there in the first place.

now what will happen next? they'll make a place for them? raise them as they were? but not eat them...? lol

I also read a site where they say meat isn't healthy. And to prove that they are right, they cited that eskimos only live 30-40 yrs. wow... what an example. trampling a culture? I don't know what, but that's how I see it. and they say "they have the choice of moving"... i mean wtf is that?
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:03 AM
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also i'd like to add that, most vegetarians don't know that their food products aka "healthy food supplements" and whatever to feed their vanity and self righteous health conscious egos (since most of them are), that these were tested on pigs/animals.

and they say remove the animal farms and replace it with "greenery"... how many hectares do they think, can feed a community with vegetables alone? and what about the "other" vegetation which was naturally there for a reason if they mow these plants down. and what about seasonal harvest? and what of climate change? there are more... but... i forgot...
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2009, 07:04 AM
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aw... I just read there was a different thread here that also discusses vegetarianism... didn't notice... but I don't want to necro a dead thread though...
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:52 AM
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hahaha


nice thread


but it makes me laugh
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:17 PM
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I'm anti-speciest, I eat everything. Vege's have souls too!!
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Burkhill View Post
I'm anti-speciest, I eat everything. Vege's have souls too!!
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:21 PM
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i used to eat a lot of meat, it was the stple for me growing up.

the only meat i eat now is chicken i can get down the street(i have to pull the feathers and clean it) and an occasional fish i catch from my local river.

it is true, when i dont put meat in my diet i 'do' have to replace the void of protiens with vitamins

i dont eat store bought meat or resturant meat because i do not know where it comes from. beef contributes to de=forestization. so the reason i dont eat meat often isnt soley for the animal but more the environment

our mickey d's in town serves two cows a day.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:40 PM
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Another myth. Well for at least this nation anyways. Often times farmers will use the same or part of the same field as the crops for the cattle. As far as the corperate farms, often times they bought old farms and converted the fields into cattle fields.
Now if youa re talking about other nations, you would be right many of the times.
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2009, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Burkhill View Post
I'm anti-speciest, I eat everything. Vege's have souls too!!


the irony of these kinds of vegetarians, is that they claim they "don't hurt" or "kill the species" and that plants "aren't cultured/produced to be eaten". well, they consumed life and its a fact.

most meat eaters accept the fact that "we kill to eat", well obviously!
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