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Old 02-04-2009, 03:34 AM
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Vigilante/Summary Killings

this is a very broad matter and I'm curious of what you people think about his topic. i posted this on the general philosophy section because I think this is a philosophical matter.

here's what I think about this. (there are more but I have a bad memory... I'll post more later on)
-i find it necessary when the police cannot control the crimes effectively or they are corrupt themselves
-this is a symbol. once somebody takes action and probably (and eventually) stops in the future because they can't take it or they saw it wrong, the idea still lingers in the back of the minds of the people motivating them to do the same thing because they deem it necessary.
-it is a "bully" justice system. yes, mostly the minorities will die and the rich will mostly be immune to it. it is based on "who can you take down", the rich which has a lot of body guards or the poor robber.
-in relation above. it is a very idealistic "justice" in which you cannot discriminate, poor or rich. but on the practical ground that you cannot simply kill those who have power. and so you go after the small fries. but if you cannot uphold the idea, then you shouldn't even be doing it.
-BUT given the situation, there's a rich ("evil") guy and then there's a poor guy. well you can imagine what the rich guy can do. anyway, the poor guy is known to rob, steal and kill people. you know that you can't touch the rich guy, but you can slit the throat of the poor guy. would you leave the the matter alone? because the vigilantism is very ideal, if you kill the poor guy, you should kill the rich guy too.
-if you're the vigilante, you don't have anyone to rely on except yourself or your group. you're no different from a criminal, only differing on your ideals.
-...(crap... i forgot ... I'll post more later when I can remember...)

and no, we are not talking about Marvel or DC or whatever comic superheroes. this is based on the place i'm living in. because here, summary killing is very common. sadly, only the minorities get killed. comparing this place from other cities (also keep in mind, this place is "in between" war torn lands... uhh not middle east), it's a lot peaceful and you can walk on the streets at midnight without worrying much getting robbed or raped or whatever. also, 30 or more years ago, this place was chaotic and kidnapping was common.

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  #2  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:51 AM
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I didn't know where to put this, on Ethics and Morality or here. Because I wanna see it more on the philosophical view rather than ethics and morality (which is mostly based on emotion).

also, how do I edit my post?
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:29 AM
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ahh I thought this was a good topic.

kthxbye
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:41 AM
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According to Solan of Athens the law could be turned into a spider's by the powerful to trap the weak / poor whilst the powerful could escape through the web. So there is nothing new in this problem. The solution is not in vigilantism which leads to tyranny but in having proper legal safeguards so justice is dispensed equally to everyone and corruption rooted out.

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Old 02-08-2009, 10:46 AM
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Perhaps after that proper legal safeguards then there won't be a need for vigilantism. If there wasn't a need, vigilantism won't be thought of anyway.
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:22 AM
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Within ten minutes of posting your post you can edit it, there is an edit button next to the quote button if it is your post and as I said posted in the last ten minutes.

Are you asking "when is it appropriate for vigilante organisations to establish themselves?"
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:41 AM
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thanks for the info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Burkhill View Post
Are you asking "when is it appropriate for vigilante organisations to establish themselves?"
ahh yes, that would be the next question. however, change it to "when is it appropriate for vigilante justice to establish itself?" or something like that.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bystander View Post
thanks for the info
No problem.

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ahh yes, that would be the next question. however, change it to "when is it appropriate for vigilante justice to establish itself?" or something like that.
I would suggest it is when the current judicial system is corrupt and imprisons the innocent and allows itself to be bribed or bullied by the guilty and thus deliver no real justice at all. How this vigilantism is to be carried out is another question altogether - it is a very dangerous practice for all involved but it does force the polititions and general populace to sit up and take stock of current circumstances - like in Italy with their war on the Mafiosa.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Burkhill View Post
I would suggest it is when the current judicial system is corrupt and imprisons the innocent and allows itself to be bribed or bullied by the guilty and thus deliver no real justice at all. How this vigilantism is to be carried out is another question altogether - it is a very dangerous practice for all involved but it does force the polititions and general populace to sit up and take stock of current circumstances - like in Italy with their war on the Mafiosa.
I agree. I don't think having vigilantism in a big scale is good though.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:21 AM
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That isn't vigilantism - that's revolution.
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Old 02-09-2009, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
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That isn't vigilantism - that's revolution.
hahaha true true
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:28 AM
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hmm

one thing i found disturbing with summary killings, as you said, is its terms of discrimination - of who to execute..

what is in the status quo?
  • the justice system is not effective because it is not capable of curbing crime because not all criminals are punished

What is the kind of summary killing you are discussing?
  • the same

so i see no point in using a harsher method if the aftermath is the same...

if you can guarantee that it will reduce criminality in a much better rate than the status quo, then it is okay..but what that kind of summary killing proposes is something that foreshadows a new kind of criminality scenario..why and how? if the poor sees that the big fish criminals get away, what do you think they would do? at first they would keep quiet because they are afraid..but in the long run, it's gonna be a disaster..

i do not oppose summary killings because there are really people who should be killed because of what they have done. i mean, i would even propose corresponding punishments (tortures before the execution) for every crime committed.. however, i think if you are going to execute criminals make sure that (1) you have an efficient means of choosing who to execute, (2) execute whoever you have chosen, regardless of social power, and (3) make sure you have power - and hopefully, an uncorrupted one - to do the execution...well, if this is not possible, then just do something with the present justice system.. i mean, just make it more effective...
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grASS View Post
one thing i found disturbing with summary killings, as you said, is its terms of discrimination - of who to execute..

what is in the status quo?
  • the justice system is not effective because it is not capable of curbing crime because not all criminals are punished

What is the kind of summary killing you are discussing?
  • the same

so i see no point in using a harsher method if the aftermath is the same...

if you can guarantee that it will reduce criminality in a much better rate than the status quo, then it is okay..but what that kind of summary killing proposes is something that foreshadows a new kind of criminality scenario..why and how? if the poor sees that the big fish criminals get away, what do you think they would do? at first they would keep quiet because they are afraid..but in the long run, it's gonna be a disaster..

i do not oppose summary killings because there are really people who should be killed because of what they have done. i mean, i would even propose corresponding punishments (tortures before the execution) for every crime committed.. however, i think if you are going to execute criminals make sure that (1) you have an efficient means of choosing who to execute, (2) execute whoever you have chosen, regardless of social power, and (3) make sure you have power - and hopefully, an uncorrupted one - to do the execution...well, if this is not possible, then just do something with the present justice system.. i mean, just make it more effective...
NOOOOO!!! KILL EVERYONE!!!! lololol
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2009, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grASS View Post
one thing i found disturbing with summary killings, as you said, is its terms of discrimination - of who to execute..

what is in the status quo?
  • the justice system is not effective because it is not capable of curbing crime because not all criminals are punished

What is the kind of summary killing you are discussing?
  • the same

so i see no point in using a harsher method if the aftermath is the same...

if you can guarantee that it will reduce criminality in a much better rate than the status quo, then it is okay..but what that kind of summary killing proposes is something that foreshadows a new kind of criminality scenario..why and how? if the poor sees that the big fish criminals get away, what do you think they would do? at first they would keep quiet because they are afraid..but in the long run, it's gonna be a disaster..

i do not oppose summary killings because there are really people who should be killed because of what they have done. i mean, i would even propose corresponding punishments (tortures before the execution) for every crime committed.. however, i think if you are going to execute criminals make sure that (1) you have an efficient means of choosing who to execute, (2) execute whoever you have chosen, regardless of social power, and (3) make sure you have power - and hopefully, an uncorrupted one - to do the execution...well, if this is not possible, then just do something with the present justice system.. i mean, just make it more effective...
nothing wrong with shooting, as long as the right people get shot
rich or not
and unfortunately, no rich people yet. i do hope they kill at least a big one. however, I do not see that happening. Since no one will back them up, not even the people they want to protect, I don't think they'll be taking down any powerful guy. well... this is just the reality. And I'm fine with it, a long as I can still go home even when I'm crawling on the ground drunk and puking along the way, no one will rob me or rape my ass.

The strong notion that the mayor said himself. "If you have plans making trouble or creating havoc in this city. You'd best be NOT in this city."

“Discipline is strictly being implemented throughout the city. Thanks to the city mayor. (Blank! city ) has made it to the headlines more than once. It is no secret that the international community, the Human Rights Group in particular criticizes the way the city government handles its affairs with regards to the extra-judicial executions around the metropolis. It maybe ironic but (city folks) has never felt secure in their life. The HR Group should have identified the casualties. The killings have been focused mostly on the undesirable elements of the society. Any visitor can access the corners of the city 24/7. Now, how many places can anyone point out for its safety?”

"For me, the killings and murders that have happened are not alarming. It is because the victims were all underworld characters, and the killings were perpetrated by vigilante groups. So if you are not involved in a criminal activity, you don’t have to worry about getting killed.”

- quoted from a blog. yep, I agree with this.
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