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  #16  
Old 07-15-2005, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyman
7) Do you adhere to any system of faith, organized religion, personal philosophy, or any particular belief system that you would like the world to focus more attention on? And why?
No.
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2005, 04:56 PM
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Actually I will come back to this.......
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  #18  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:48 PM
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So:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyman
7) Do you adhere to any system of faith, organized religion, personal philosophy, or any particular belief system that you would like the world to focus more attention on? And why?
I don't have any religious faith, in that sense I am an atheist. I don't have a structured personal philosophy, though I do have some concepts. I do have a particular belief system when it comes to what the world; but I don't care very much if other people believe in it or not. A little bit of course, because I find that other belief systems tend to be destructive at worst and unhelpful at best.

So, for those that don't know, this "belief" is modal reality.
Basically modal reality state that the world we see and experience around us is real and exists. It exists because all possible things exist. The world is possible, therfore it exists.
This concept was originally dreamt up to answer counterfactuals: what ifs.
Such as "what if Kennedy had not been shot?", or "what if I had crossed the road?". These counterfactuals raise questions about what the world would be like if one thing had happened instead of another. Modal reality makes these counterfactuals real, rather than hypothetical; ie it gives them a meaning which otherwise they don't have - how can we think of a what if, if there is no alternative?
But it answers a lot more questions, too. What is reality? That which we see. Are we real? Yes. Do we exist? Yes. Why is the world like it is? Because it is possible. Why is the universe so fine tuned? Because it is possible. Why did life evolve on Earth? Because it is possible.
Of course this world (and by world I mean this entire set of possible things, this universe) is not the only possible world, all possible worlds exist. So when we ask a what if, in another possible world that what if has played out; in another possible world Kennedy was not assasinated, in another possible world I did cross the street.
Another "possibility" is of course to simply think about what is a possible world. Is it possible that there is another world where we are resurrected when we die?
As far as my own interpretation of modal reality goes, it makes god unnecessary (and indeed I don't believe that god is a possibility in this world, although in some worlds a god like being maybe possible, but in a restricted sense), and it makes all the questions of probability and chance disappear. However small the chance is, if it's greater than zero, it is happening: maybe not in this world, but in a world. And however small the chance is, this world is possible, and here it is.
So we aren't created by a super being, we aren't simulations, we aren't disembodied brains inventing the world around us, we aren't part of a universal spirit, or one with nature, or any thing else: we are what we appear to be - thinking animals living on a small planet going round a yellow dwarf star in an unremarkable arm of an unremarkable spiral galaxy in one cluster of billions of clusters of galaxies in a universe that started some 15Bn years ago, simply because it was possible.
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  #19  
Old 07-21-2005, 02:43 PM
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A world where kennedy wasn't shot? Interesting. I'd be jealous if I thought I'd still exist there.

Quote:
simply because it was possible
Does this include realities which we may describe as hell, based off experiences in this world where power is corrupted and people are objectified and victimized?

How do you account for dependent origination? I believe it is a buddhist law or belief, among others, pointing that no thing can exist that isn't dependent on some other condition, hence their unseperable relationship or connection. Are you saying man is an independent condition?

Do you only apply the term athiest to yourself in the context of other people's faith? It sounds as if it never comes to your mind until someone supposes a faith in god or religion.

8) What topics/forums do you enjoy discussing most and who do you enjoy discussing these topics/forums with?
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2005, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyman
A world where kennedy wasn't shot? Interesting. I'd be jealous if I thought I'd still exist there.
You do, Kyman, you do.


Quote:
Does this include realities which we may describe as hell, based off experiences in this world where power is corrupted and people are objectified and victimized?
It sounds possible, doesn't it? But I guess this is debatable. At any time there will be an infinite number of despotic and hellish possibles; but experience here suggests that these are not long-lived and that eventually morality/decency prevails. Problem is, what can we derive about all possible worlds from just one example?

In our world at least, such hellish realities are narrowly confined in time and/or space, they seldom outlive the despot who starts them up.

So although I am open to the possibility that every time I make a decision for the good, there is a possible world where I make the opposite decision - I am not wholly open to the possibility that a world exists where everyone conytinuously makes these "bad " decisions. My own belief (ha) is that morality is a self-preservation device - truly despotic and evil societies are self destructive. Ever played any RPGs? Being evil is really hard work, and surviving is even harder!

Quote:
How do you account for dependent origination? I believe it is a buddhist law or belief, among others, pointing that no thing can exist that isn't dependent on some other condition, hence their unseperable relationship or connection. Are you saying man is an independent condition?
Things have to be possible ; I don't believe that it is possible for a man or a man-type thing to spontaneously appear.

Quote:
Do you only apply the term athiest to yourself in the context of other people's faith? It sounds as if it never comes to your mind until someone supposes a faith in god or religion
I don't think of myself as an atheist anymore than I think of myself as non-woman, or non-black, or non-American, or non-accountant. The fact is that I am all these things, but this isn't a self-view. In everyday life I don't even think about god or non-god. It does only " erupt" when people talk about religion. Just as if people talk about (say) murdering people, my anti-murder side would show up, without me otherwise thinking about not murdering people on a daily basis.

Religion is a power device; there are con-men and marks. If you are a mark I can try and convince you how you are being conned; if you're a conman, I'll try and put you out of business - but it isn't my life's work by any means.

My view on religion is not very different from my view on pyramid selling or network marketing - they are all insidious evils.

Quote:
8) What topics/forums do you enjoy discussing most and who do you enjoy discussing these topics/forums with?
I don't mind, I'm open to it all. The main problem is the total lack of intelligence displayed by certain people here; often people who just spew out garbage or vitriol without ever stopping to think. I have no problem with agreeing with people on one subject whilst vigorously opposing them on another - some people however appear to take an opposite view to everything. Often the people I enjoy listening to (reading) are not necessarily people I discuss with: Misfit, Leouna, Miko, Kolriss, Frish, Drom, Kyman, Mr A, Mindsweeper, St. Bean - to name a few are all interesting; but some of them I almost never engage with, some I disagree with, and others I agree with (and that changes from topic to topic). I'm also open to changing my views on people as some of those mentioned above might attest. But liking people/enjoying what they write and agreeing with them aren't the same!!

Actually I quite like the odd insaniacs who turns up, but most aren't long lived.
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  #21  
Old 07-27-2005, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
You do, Kyman, you do.
I know it wasn't a great flick, but I bet you loved that Jet Li movie called 'The One'. Tell me you saw it.

Quote:
So although I am open to the possibility that every time I make a decision for the good, there is a possible world where I make the opposite decision - I am not wholly open to the possibility that a world exists where everyone conytinuously makes these "bad " decisions. My own belief (ha) is that morality is a self-preservation device - truly despotic and evil societies are self destructive. Ever played any RPGs? Being evil is really hard work, and surviving is even harder!
That makes perfect sense. Hell is an experience, but what goes down must come up, right?

Yes I have played them. Now tell me, don't you think it is interesting how the bad guys are few BUT powerful, and then good guys are weaker BUT work together? This reinforces beliefs that hell is an experience of isolation and attachment to force or power due to the isolation. And heaven is an experience of belonging to a whole/oneness. Belonging to whole allows you to accept your level of strength/influence, and since you are one with it, when it lives on without you you can pass on in peace. Where else could terms like heaven and hell come from except from our own knowlegdge/interpretations and experience?

Quote:
Religion is a power device; there are con-men and marks. If you are a mark I can try and convince you how you are being conned; if you're a conman, I'll try and put you out of business - but it isn't my life's work by any means.

My view on religion is not very different from my view on pyramid selling or network marketing - they are all insidious evils.
You've always struck me as a curious person. You enjoy learning about life, as it relates to your place within it. You are always a fresh source of opinion on life and are consistent with your logic. Others share these qualties but have few places to turn to for guidance and self expression....

Would you say that religion is the equivalent to a violent criminal posing as kind/friendly only to lure someone into some kind of objectivication?

If you answer yes, then is the kindness/friendliness the person was attracted to real or false? In other words, if people choose not to express themselves through religion, can they find something somewhere else which contains the same thing that attracted to religion in the first place?

Quote:
I don't mind, I'm open to it all.
Does this mean you operate FC almost entirely through the 'new posts' button?

I didn't discover that button for quite a while, but since then it has been most helpful. Opened me up to a lot of other threads which I might not have noticed when searching through the forums.

Quote:
I have no problem with agreeing with people on one subject whilst vigorously opposing them on another - some people however appear to take an opposite view to everything.
I used to be tremendously contradictory in my personal life. For some reason our minds just automatically take an opposing view, perhaps more so with others we feel challenged by, but in any case, what do you attribute this to? And what methods do you employ to help another person see the light as you see it? Mainly someone you really want to communicate with? How do you disarm their 'auto-logic'.

Quote:
Actually I quite like the odd insaniacs who turns up, but most aren't long lived.
Indeed. Kudos to FC for embracing freedom of expression. A place where we can be our crazy selves, just not too crazy.

9) Tell us your position on either 'Legislating Euthanasia' or 'Your ideal political system be and how would it function'.
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Last edited by kyman; 07-27-2005 at 02:13 AM.
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2005, 08:02 AM
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Symptom777 Symptom777 is offline
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Just a quick reply, I'll address the Q later...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyman
I know it wasn't a great flick, but I bet you loved that Jet Li movie called 'The One'. Tell me you saw it.
Yeah I saw it, dammit. It was terrible. I guess someone saw the Matrix and had a thousand bucks to spend..... This surely put Jet Li's career back a decade. He needs to talk to Quentin Tarantino.
Quote:
Yes I have played them. Now tell me, don't you think it is interesting how the bad guys are few BUT powerful, and then good guys are weaker BUT work together?
exactly.Anyway I could never do "evil", even my chatic-neutral dwarf assassin ended up as a lawful-good paladin, I was losing levels faster than I could gain them. Still an ambidextrous paladin with back-stabbing skills did turn out farly powerful. Anyway, that surely cost me several grades at uni, too - I was losing grades faster than I could make them!!

Quote:
This reinforces beliefs that hell is an experience of isolation and attachment to force or power due to the isolation. And heaven is an experience of belonging to a whole/oneness. Belonging to whole allows you to accept your level of strength/influence, and since you are one with it, when it lives on without you you can pass on in peace. Where else could terms like heaven and hell come from except from our own knowlegdge/interpretations and experience?
I'm pretty much with you on this.

Quote:
You've always struck me as a curious person. You enjoy learning about life, as it relates to your place within it. You are always a fresh source of opinion on life and are consistent with your logic. Others share these qualties but have few places to turn to for guidance and self expression....
You mean curious as in I like to know stuff? or curious as in strange? Or both? Two years ago I got made redundant from a job where I'd almost but not quite made the top. I spent a year out of work (though happily still getting paid), so I had to reassess my life. Part of this was doing some heavy duty web research, and part of that was ending up at FC. Sounds soft as shit, but this really helped me a lot; ane the dissapointment I felt has long since evaporated - I am now a much more relaxed and contented person. Besides that I found out lots of stuff, and lots of non-stuff; it's the non-stuff I want to expose.

Quote:
Would you say that religion is the equivalent to a violent criminal posing as kind/friendly only to lure someone into some kind of objectivication?
Not really violent, more like a pick-pocket. However I do think that religion and violence have a lot in common; and mental violence is far worse and eventually more deadly than physical violence.

Quote:
If you answer yes, then is the kindness/friendliness the person was attracted to real or false?
Some and some - if you're a mark, then you're simply duped, you may go on in a freindly way but only leading to the duping of others. Like pyramid selling - the guys at the top know it's wrong, the guys in the middel are genuinely enthused and have faith, the guys at the bottom are fodder for the top guys not for the middle guys. The middle guys either eventually pull out and become knowledgeable good guys, or stay in and become cynical bad guys.

Quote:
In other words, if people choose not to express themselves through religion, can they find something somewhere else which contains the same thing that attracted to religion in the first place?
Yes they can! Often though it is a weakness in them to need someone else (priest or god) to tell them what to do. Suicide bombers, and pyschotic killers are at the bottom end of these weaklings.

[quote]Does this mean you operate FC almost entirely through the 'new posts' button? [\QUOTE]
Got me bang to rights.

Quote:
I used to be tremendously contradictory in my personal life. For some reason our minds just automatically take an opposing view, perhaps more so with others we feel challenged by, but in any case, what do you attribute this to?
Depends. Ego, stupidity or just for the fun of it. But also sometimes we do it to try and point out the weaknesses in something we ourselves might believe in - devil's advocacy. Also note that taking an opposite view is a central part of the UK governmental and judicial systems. The opposition's role in government is to oppose the ruling party. The problem with all agreeing is you end up doing bad things for good reasons. This is why despots tend towards wickedness and tend not to last long, however good their intentions were.

Quote:
And what methods do you employ to help another person see the light as you see it? Mainly someone you really want to communicate with? How do you disarm their 'auto-logic'.
Reason with them, and failing that kick ten tons of shit outta them


Quote:
9) Tell us your position on either 'Legislating Euthanasia' or 'Your ideal political system be and how would it function'.
tbc.....
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2005, 05:37 PM
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Legislating Euthanasia.

My view is that euthanasia should be legalised. Suicide is legal in many countries, and indeed making it illegal is clearly simply stupid. I've never heard of anyone being charged with suicide, or even with attempted suicide. Suicide to euthanasia isn't a big step in one sense, but in fact in another sense it's a big step forward. Suicides are often mentally unbalanced.

Doctors already routinely make decisions about who lives and who dies. There simply isn't enough life support machines, body parts, drugs, etc. to go around. So today people are dying because of a lack, and we allow, expect, doctors to make these decisions. Furthermore, there are people dying simply from lack of food, water and shelter - and in vast numbers. Do we legislate against this? do we do very much about it? Why then should we concern ourselves overly about a few people who actually want to escape from misery? What we shold be doing is concentrating on ensuring that there are safe-guards to prevent murders disguised as euthanasia, and then just get on with it.

Modern medical techniques - if we have the resources to pay for them - allow us to live well beyond a ripe old age into a rotting old age, or to keep us alive when we would be better of dead. There is no coercion here, it's choice.

In fact i would suggest that everyone should write down their end-date in a will - they can keep revising this upwards until they either meet it, or are incapable of changing it - at that point, bring it on.

The secondary benefit is that we can use the reources spent on people who don't even want them anymore on people who do want and need them. It would be interesting to know how many people die unhappily through a lack of resources which would otherwise be made available by keeping people alive unhappily.
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  #24  
Old 08-02-2005, 09:46 PM
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Is it possible to wish to die and still be completely lucid and of sound mind?

In this day and age, we still have things we need to work on, yet there are still amazing achievements and breakthroughs into new ways of looking at the world. America has its share of growing up to do, but it is also leading the way in certain respects. Why do you think it is that America has not legislated euthanasia?

If someone is going to die naturally, and have a personal wish to die because their bodies have deteriorated so much, isn't it unnatural to interfere with nature's course? How is that not playing god? Or, if you'd prefer to answer it this way, how is that logical?

10) What's the best question you can think of that wasn't asked of you, but you would like to see in the next interview? Now answer it. (Please make it a reasonable question because it will be used in the next interview.)
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  #25  
Old 08-02-2005, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyman
Is it possible to wish to die and still be completely lucid and of sound mind?
I believe so. But how would we know? Not sure, you could argue that self destruction is by definition mad. On the other hadn, you could argue, so what? If you are not completely lucid and of sound mind - are you you in any event?

Quote:
Why do you think it is that America has not legislated euthanasia?
Fundamentalism. Also, I think that the demographic shift is more pronounced in Europe than in USA, and it becomes increasingly obvious that we just can't go on expecting people to live longer at the expense of the young. It's a harsh economic fact. People over 80 tend to need: homehelp, scooy mobiles, regular medication, transport services, sheltered housing, are more likely to occupy hospital beds and so on.

Imagine how many lives could actually be saved by using resources that have been used to sustain the life of one cabbage patch doll for years.

Quote:
If someone is going to die naturally, and have a personal wish to die because their bodies have deteriorated so much, isn't it unnatural to interfere with nature's course? How is that not playing god? Or, if you'd prefer to answer it this way, how is that logical?
There isn't to me a question here of natural or unnatural. 5,000 years ago, I'd be dead already - my eyesight just was never good enough to survive. If you broke your leg, got the measles or whatever you'd be dead. Just 100 years ago simple diseases and breaks and vitamin lack would kill you easy. Is medicine unnatural? The question is what is the point? What is the point of sustaining a life beyond which the person enjoys that life?

Quote:
10) What's the best question you can think of that wasn't asked of you, but you would like to see in the next interview? Now answer it. (Please make it a reasonable question because it will be used in the next interview.)
Hang on - didn't I already think of these???
I come back to you.
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  #26  
Old 08-10-2005, 12:30 AM
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Ok, at long last.

11) WHAT'S THE GREATEST INVENTION EVER
The washing macine. It's the only invention that actually saves us work on a daily basis, it works better and faster than hand washing, it runs 365 days a year for five years without any serious maintenance, it's relatively small and compact, combines electronics, electrics, mechanics, hydraulics in one package, can be operated by anyone with less than 60s of training, and they look ok too.
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2005, 02:48 AM
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Thanks for the interview

Good one. Saved all the decent questions for your self, I guess...

Thank you for your time.

Anybody else have a question?
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2006, 08:03 AM
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I do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyman
Good one. Saved all the decent questions for your self, I guess...

Thank you for your time.

Anybody else have a question?





I do and appreciate the fine inputs and the logics of Symptom.
He is no simpleton but why No 777 when 7 is is a No of perfection.
7 days a week, 7 spirits of God, 7=3+4 and all of that theology.
Sure people turn up at your door and do not know what they say.
If say the best possible world does exist and it is in the future.
Does that not mean that it has allready occured in time and space.
Just as the past has occured and the vast majority of experiance forgotten.
I mean to say that as a function memory is sustained by past/moment/
future.
Now since we were not in place at the time of creation of the universe how can we know?
It is all metaphysics and so proof is only attainable if one puts faith is a proposition.
Hoyle proposed BB out of his arrogance that their is no GOD yet in essence proves GOD.
The law of conservation of energy means that the universe is an extension of his being.
That allows for his omnipotence and so far no one has come up with a plausable excuse.
The electron charges from negative to positive and no one can explain why it just is that way.
So many objectifications work in that fashion because a fact is an assumption.
Why the fact is an assumption is because to assume is to have faith in a proposition.
The proposition that "GOD IS SHORT FOR GOOD" means that good people are GODS.
But no one is GOOD yet because we are all still ignorant of many of the facts to observe.
So that makes us all EVIL till we know all of the facts in the case that is at question.
Now I know Symptom much better and understand his way of thinking and reasoning.
Before I knew that fact I was EVIL or bad to him and his persona and that is not good.
Now I know his style his individual fashion of reasoning I pray that I am GOOD for him.




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  #29  
Old 03-20-2006, 01:14 PM
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777=3*37*7
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Symptom777
exactly.Anyway I could never do "evil", even my chatic-neutral dwarf assassin ended up as a lawful-good paladin, I was losing levels faster than I could gain them. Still an ambidextrous paladin with back-stabbing skills did turn out farly powerful. Anyway, that surely cost me several grades at uni, too - I was losing grades faster than I could make them!!
!!! Ha, pimp.
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