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Old 05-21-2006, 11:13 PM
KennethSearcy KennethSearcy is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: white oak texas
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Philosophy With Answers

BREAKING
THE
CHAINS


Philosophy With Answers




Kenneth L. Searcy




“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

Colossians (2:8)
KJV




The Theory Of Balance

“Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.”

Matthew 10:26
KJV

This theory is based on something and nothingness. By something, I mean all matter and energy. By nothingness, I mean a complete void where nothing exists. I am going to try to find the relationship between these two. I know they seem to be the opposite of each other. However, like a jigsaw puzzle, to get the sides of two pieces to fit together perfectly they have to be exact opposites. Science could be like a puzzle; a thousand theories could make one theory.
Some scientists think that the universe is balanced. They believe that for every piece of matter there is a piece of anti-matter. There may be another way to prove the universe is balanced. Let us use an apple for an example. How can we prove that this apple is balanced? We can use simple math to do it. First, we need to make this into an equation. Using science, we know there is no other apple in the world that is exactly like this particular apple. Although it is simple, it would be safe to say that this apple can only equal itself. That would make our equation one equals one, which is a true statement.

1=1

To see if it is balanced we will set the equation to equal zero. In doing so we will need to move the one to the other side and make it a negative.

1-1=0

In order for us to mathematically prove that it is balanced, we must subtract the two sides from each other. It is still a true equation. Nevertheless, let us continue by subtracting the ones.

0=0

This not only shows us that the apple is balanced but it may also lead us to another conclusion as well. A question remains. What does it mean when we say this apple is balanced? I will attempt to answer this question in a moment. However, let us first look at nothingness.
Nothingness is an idea we try to use to explain why there is something in the universe. To understand this idea, imagine infinitely nothing. Where there is no energy, no time, and no matter anywhere. There are problems with this theory. For instance, how can something (the universe) come from nothing? If only nothingness had some other characteristic that we are not seeing then maybe we could put them together.
The only way for these two theories to go together is if nothingness has a nature. However, can nothing have a nature? Pick two or more points in this nothingness and compare them. Are they equal? There should be nothing in each point you chose. The equation would be zero equals zero.

0=0

Does this sound familiar? It is just like the equation of the apple. The nature of nothingness is that it is balanced. This just shows that in nothingness there is potential for there to be something.
Back to the question about what it means when we say the apple is balanced. It is stating that the only way for the apple to exist or to come into existence is for it to be balanced. In saying that the apple is balanced simply means that it exists. If all matter and energy is balanced then when we subtract it from itself and it equals a balanced nothingness, it is proof that it existed in the first place. This assures us that whatever the truth is, we know it is real.
In science, the reduction strategy is used to learn what things are made of and how they work. Although this strategy has been very successful, it appears to have a problem. In our search for knowledge when we ask a question and logically answer it we then try to reduce the answer with another question and thus starting a repetitive chain of questions that may never be satisfied with an answer.
If we asked what are atoms made of? We could reduce it to quarks. However, we do not have any real proof that atoms are made of quarks. This means that it is just an idea. If we accept it as a fact then we will try to reduce it. Ideas of course are in our minds. Our minds are where reducing ideas will take us because we have a choice.
This shows us our free will. When trying to understand the outside world our questions lead us to our mental selves. This is not a problem but a choice. We can choose to accept it as a fact or not. If we do not except it then all we can do is wait for the proof we need to make it a solid theory. If we do except it as a fact then when we reduce it, it will take us to our minds and we will be forced to ask the question again. The experiences in our lives rely completely on our free will because if we did not have one then we would be like a tree.
We need to look at another problem. How can something come from nothing? When we use the word nothing or nothingness we mean that nothing exist. Therefore lets use the terms exist and non-existent. The question would now be how existence could come from non-existence.
If who we are is more or less made up of our experience, our memory, and our free will then before we were conceived, we were non-existent and now we exist. If I have a thought, did it exist before I had it? The thought was a possibility. Before I had it there was potential for it to exist. Just like nothingness has potential for there to be something.
Let us say that something did somehow come into existence. Then nothingness would no longer be balanced. If the equation of nothingness is zero equals zero and the equation of something is one equals one then the equation of the universe as we see it is zero equals one.

0=1

This is because it appears that this universe is made up of something and nothing. The zero represents nothing and the one represents something, which means they are exact opposites. When these two are separate, they are balanced but when we put them together, they seem to have a hard time getting along.
When matter comes into existence there seems to be a natural force that comes from nothingness that wants to balance itself out by trying to pull matter apart as if space has a vacuum effect. Newton’s third law states that every action has an equal and opposite reaction and that, forces always occur in pairs. Therefore, the opposing force of this vacuum is gravity. The vacuum tries to pull matter apart and gravity tries to hold it together creating balance.
So how can something that exists come from a state of non-existence? We came into existence from non-existence and the thought came into existence from non-existence. Therefore, it is very possible that something came from nothing. However, I am not concerned with how but by whom.
What does all this mean? Not only must this universe have the requirements to contain life, it must also have the requirements for life to have a free will. What requirements could the universe possibly have to allow for a free will? We can see our lives as many choices that we can freely make. Nevertheless, before we choose to do something it is just a possibility. Possibilities are what this universe must have (what seems to be an infinite amount of) in order for life to have a free will. The universe must be balanced at a point where there are infinite amounts of possibilities so we can have an infinite amount of choices.
It appears that this universe is perfect as far as being able to have life and allowing life to have a free will. No matter how precisely we try to define it, it will always lead us to a choice. If matter is balanced then it shows us that it exists and if nothingness becomes unbalanced by the existents of matter then the universe is a balancing act of complete opposites. It leads us to an infinite amount of possibilities to choose from limited by our willingness to make a choice and our imaginations.
We can look around this world and see there are many ideas, theories, beliefs, and religions that try to explain how and why we are here. Therefore, there are many possibilities that we can use to try to explain the universe; however, in an honest search for the truth we must go through the possibilities until it is found if there is anything to find. Now we must ask the question is there a God.



GOD

“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John (8:32)
KJV

This theory could possibly reveal to us that there is not a God. The simplest answer would be that the universe exists by its very nature. However, we once thought that the earth was flat which was the simplest and most obvious answer. God could also exist by his very nature. With out the bible we would not know anything about him. Therefore, we must see if the bible can prove to us that he exists. In order for us to keep our search honest, we must give God a chance to prove himself to us.
What could prove that there is a God or not? It seems that physical evidence could go both ways. We cannot use personal testimony because chances are that no matter what you believe, you are (even as you are reading this) trying to find reasons why your beliefs are right. The bible says this in Proverbs (12:15). “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.”
It appears that no matter how much logic we use someone could always deny it. Therefore, it must be that we have the free will to choose our beliefs as individuals, based on our own reasoning, knowledge, and our own understanding. It may not matter what you believe to be the truth because every belief is taken on faith. This is leading back to the fact that all things are possible. The bible shows this in Matthew (19:26). “But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
In philosophy, we cannot quite figure out who we are. When asked who I am I could say my name. However, a name is just a title. It is a way for us to classify and recognize each other. It does not really reveal who I am. I could give characteristics about myself, but it could take a lifetime to get to know who I am. Even that may fall short because you do not know my thoughts. If God is a living God and we are in his image, then he should have a similar problem.
The bible gives what seems to be a perfect reflection of this in Exodus (3:13-14). “And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I am that I am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I am hath sent me unto you.”
If God is or if he is like a father to us then how he interacts with us must change as our knowledge and understanding increases. At one time God must have treated us like a kid. God gave Adam and Eve only one rule. He told them not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why would God only give us one rule? Could he have known that we did not have much wisdom or understanding?
In addition, God being good rightfully chose not to worry much about what would happen if his children disobeyed him. I am sure most parents have learned that you can tell your kids not to do drugs and even tell them that they will surly die if they do, but some of us just have to learn for ourselves.
God sent Moses to give us more laws and commandments. Why would God the father give us more rules? Maybe he loves his kids. Whether they understand them or not laws will help keep them from hurting themselves and others. I am sure little kids would not truly understand why they should not run into the road. Parents’ stress this rule and they will discipline there kids if they do run into the road even if they do not get hurt. Kids would then know not to because they will get a spanking and hopefully they will in time understand that they did it in love so they would not, in there ignorance get hurt.
One problem we are faced with is who the messiah is. The Jewish people believe that he has not yet come. The Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ. The Jews do not believe that Jesus is Christ because they do not think that he brought peace and he was not a king. It appears that since there are people who call him there king, that he is a king to those who believe in him.
What could bring peace to an evil world? The people must receive peace mentally or spiritually in order for it to be visible in the world. We must have inner peace before our actions could make the world a better place. Jesus speaks of this in the Gospel of John.
(14:27) “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.”
(16:33) “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have Peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”

Why would God the father send Jesus? A father would not only teach his children to be righteous. He would also set an example. Jesus was among other things a prophet. He spoke of this in the Gospel of John (12:44-50).

“Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”

Therefore, Jesus became God’s word by saying exactly what God wanted him to say. In doing this, he became the example. Jesus showed us what it is like to give up your own will and to align every aspect of our life to do Gods will. He showed us a maturity about God’s laws. The laws help shape and form us into being mature. Its being in complete control over our actions as well as our thoughts. Not letting any natural lust of the flesh to control us.
Why would God the father create us? Could it be love? When a child is born parents without love would definitely leave the child to die. It is more of a burden to take care of a child than to abandon it. Therefore it must be love that causes parents to take care of there children. The bible reveals what God wants from us in Joel (2:12-13).

“Therefore also now, saith the lord, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the lord your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.”
It could melt a heart to understand that all the pain that we have suffered and all that we have afflicted since our beginning is because of our ignorance. Getting us to realize that Jesus suffered and died for us is a good way for God to get our hearts. It would also help us to understand Gods great mercy. It is through ignorance that we pass our problems on to our children but it is love that holds us together.
1 John (4:16-21) “And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.”
Could it be because of love that we were created? Could he have given us commandments and laws out of love? Did he reveal his love through Jesus? Then would it be love that broke the chains?




Conclusion

“But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to Confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to Confound the things which are mighty;”
1 Corinthians (1:27)
KJV

It appears that there may be no way out of this mental battle. Oddly enough at the point of balance, reason becomes unreasonable. It can help you gather information but making the choice is up to you. Reason is at the mercy of knowledge. If there is any information that we are missing then reason does not help our search for the truth but it will hurt it. We may never know if there is some hidden information that would change our minds. Reason is a very useful tool, similar to a hammer. We can build a house with a hammer. However, we cannot live in the hammer.
We have been increasing in knowledge for thousands of years searching for the ultimate answer. When the ultimate answer is whatever you freely choose it to be. I must add that when we put our desires aside and we honestly search for the truth then we can find a way out. The way out of this pit is to choose.
We must realize that God is our father, and then you need to know that you have broken his rules and are in need of his mercy. Only by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and humbling yourself before him can you receive God’s mercy. Because we must understand that, it takes sacrifices in our lives to conquer that what seems to come natural so we can have complete control over our actions and our thoughts.
How is it possible for the son of God to be alive? Will the sun not give its light to darkness? Will it not even give its light to the all-consuming black hole? If the sun dies for whatever reason then how can it live on? Could it live on through the light that it gives unto darkness? From the point of view from the outer edge of the universe, will the sun not appear as it were new although it has passed away? The son may have been swallowed by death; however, he is alive through what he has given. He gave his life even unto death so that we may live!





“O praise the LORD, all ye nations: praise him, all ye people. For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.”

Psalms 117
KJV
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  #2  
Old 05-22-2006, 02:18 PM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
BREAKING
THE
CHAINS
And stepping into the prison cell of religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Philosophy With Answers
Philosophy with guesses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Kenneth L. Searcy

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

Colossians (2:8)
KJV
Warning bells probably a Bible whacko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
The Theory Of Balance

“Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.”

Matthew 10:26
KJV

This theory is based on something and nothingness. By something, I mean all matter and energy. By nothingness, I mean a complete void where nothing exists. I am going to try to find the relationship between these two. I know they seem to be the opposite of each other. However, like a jigsaw puzzle, to get the sides of two pieces to fit together perfectly they have to be exact opposites. Science could be like a puzzle; a thousand theories could make one theory.

Some scientists think that the universe is balanced. They believe that for every piece of matter there is a piece of anti-matter. There may be another way to prove the universe is balanced. Let us use an apple for an example. How can we prove that this apple is balanced? We can use simple math to do it. First, we need to make this into an equation. Using science, we know there is no other apple in the world that is exactly like this particular apple. Although it is simple, it would be safe to say that this apple can only equal itself. That would make our equation one equals one, which is a true statement.
This matter-antimatter analogy is flawed. Show me any scientists anywhere that believe for every piece of matter there is a piece of antimatter. Astronomers have long since demonstrated there is no accumulation of antimatter in the Universe. Antimatter has specific spectral properties and if it existed it would not have lasted long and its annihilation with matter would have been seen. But it has never been seen. Furthermore, the Big Bang nucleosynthesis matter-anti-matter cancellations resulted in matter achieving victory to the tune of 3 parts per billion. Had antimatter won out over matter, we would have called antimatter matter and matter antimatter – so it really doesn’t matter---- 

’—what happened was that slight excess was built up, 3 parts per billion. For every billion bits of matter and anti-matter that annihilated each other eventually, 3 were left over that could not find a mate;’ Lecture 38 Understanding the Universe by Professor Alex Filippenko (Berkeley)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
1=1

To see if it is balanced we will set the equation to equal zero. In doing so we will need to move the one to the other side and make it a negative.

1-1=0

In order for us to mathematically prove that it is balanced, we must subtract the two sides from each other. It is still a true equation. Nevertheless, let us continue by subtracting the ones.

0=0

This not only shows us that the apple is balanced but it may also lead us to another conclusion as well. A question remains. What does it mean when we say this apple is balanced? I will attempt to answer this question in a moment. However, let us first look at nothingness.

Nothingness is an idea we try to use to explain why there is something in the universe. To understand this idea, imagine infinitely nothing. Where there is no energy, no time, and no matter anywhere. There are problems with this theory. For instance, how can something (the universe) come from nothing? If only nothingness had some other characteristic that we are not seeing then maybe we could put them together.

The only way for these two theories to go together is if nothingness has a nature. However, can nothing have a nature? Pick two or more points in this nothingness and compare them. Are they equal? There should be nothing in each point you chose. The equation would be zero equals zero.
That depends on what you call nothing. A quantum fluctuation 20 orders of magnitude smaller than a proton that pops into existence and takes off by inflation? You can’t see/the science for atoms did not exist at the time the idea of Creation ex Nihilo – Creation out of nothing came about. I could tell you that psychology did not exist at the time of St. Augustine either. Or did it? Did it exist without a name for it? Just because you haven’t given something a name means it doesn’t exist? I guess there will be no new words from technology in the future. Like the Jews say there is nothing new under the Sun….. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
0=0

Does this sound familiar? It is just like the equation of the apple. The nature of nothingness is that it is balanced. This just shows that in nothingness there is potential for there to be something.
Back to the question about what it means when we say the apple is balanced. It is stating that the only way for the apple to exist or to come into existence is for it to be balanced. In saying that the apple is balanced simply means that it exists. If all matter and energy is balanced then when we subtract it from itself and it equals a balanced nothingness, it is proof that it existed in the first place. This assures us that whatever the truth is, we know it is real.
Sounds like Guth Inflation theory to me. Gravity vs negative expansion energy. Also known in Kashmir Shaivism with Shiva as the Centripetal outward force and Shakti (God) as the inward centrifugal force/gravity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
In science, the reduction strategy is used to learn what things are made of and how they work. Although this strategy has been very successful, it appears to have a problem. In our search for knowledge when we ask a question and logically answer it we then try to reduce the answer with another question and thus starting a repetitive chain of questions that may never be satisfied with an answer.

If we asked what are atoms made of? We could reduce it to quarks. However, we do not have any real proof that atoms are made of quarks. This means that it is just an idea. If we accept it as a fact then we will try to reduce it. Ideas of course are in our minds. Our minds are where reducing ideas will take us because we have a choice.
What do you mean we don’t have any real evidence atoms are made of quarks? Science knows lots of things about quarks. They are not a theory anymore. They were originally used to explain things as a computational analogy but no more. Or do you say the same thing about atoms and the Earth is flat too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
This shows us our free will. When trying to understand the outside world our questions lead us to our mental selves.
Our mental selves IS the outside world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
This is not a problem but a choice. We can choose to accept it as a fact or not. If we do not except it then all we can do is wait for the proof we need to make it a solid theory. If we do except it as a fact then when we reduce it, it will take us to our minds and we will be forced to ask the question again. The experiences in our lives rely completely on our free will because if we did not have one then we would be like a tree.
The mind has free will because it believes itself to be making choices in the present that could be otherwise. Since it cannot know the future, for the mind free will exists. From an omniscient point of view however, all we are doing is acting out what was finished long ago. The future is an open book to a Free Soul or Atman/Purusha. We are the Essence of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
We need to look at another problem. How can something come from nothing? When we use the word nothing or nothingness we mean that nothing exist. Therefore lets use the terms exist and non-existent. The question would now be how existence could come from non-existence.
The question would now be does a borrowing of energy from a quantum fluctuation that must be paid back is something or nothing……

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
If who we are is more or less made up of our experience, our memory, and our free will then before we were conceived, we were non-existent and now we exist. If I have a thought, did it exist before I had it? The thought was a possibility. Before I had it there was potential for it to exist. Just like nothingness has potential for there to be something.
Looks like you are confusing yourself/have a lot to learn. We are souls that give rise to consciousness in the Universe. We ALWAYS existed/were never born. Minds and bodies are what come and go along with the Universe but we are none of these things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Let us say that something did somehow come into existence. Then nothingness would no longer be balanced. If the equation of nothingness is zero equals zero and the equation of something is one equals one then the equation of the universe as we see it is zero equals one.

0=1
That violates the conservation of energy. 0 = 1 can only happen by virtue of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (HUP) for a short amount of time. Proof that 0 = 1 is found in Quantum Electro Dynamics (QED)/Feynman. As an electron circles an atom, virtual particle pairs pop into and out of existence as it does. They have charges on them and influence the orbit of the electron. Without taking into consideration these virtual particle pairs, the path of the electron is incorrect but it is correct when virtual particles are considered. Search on renormalization. Space is not empty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
This is because it appears that this universe is made up of something and nothing. The zero represents nothing and the one represents something, which means they are exact opposites. When these two are separate, they are balanced but when we put them together, they seem to have a hard time getting along.

When matter comes into existence there seems to be a natural force that comes from nothingness that wants to balance itself out by trying to pull matter apart as if space has a vacuum effect. Newton’s third law states that every action has an equal and opposite reaction and that, forces always occur in pairs. Therefore, the opposing force of this vacuum is gravity. The vacuum tries to pull matter apart and gravity tries to hold it together creating balance.
That’s basically what Alan Guth Inflation Theory says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
So how can something that exists come from a state of non-existence? We came into existence from non-existence and the thought came into existence from non-existence. Therefore, it is very possible that something came from nothing. However, I am not concerned with how but by whom.
What does all this mean? Not only must this universe have the requirements to contain life, it must also have the requirements for life to have a free will.
Free will is a mind thing. The subject you are discussing is the Anthropic Principle. The Universe seems to have known we were coming because there are so many conditions for a Universe to sustain life as we know it – boggles the mind. I can be very explicit. If the strong nuclear force was 20% weaker there would only hydrogen in the Universe. No carbon. No oxygen. No life or anything else interesting for that matter. If it were only 2% stronger, there would be no hydrogen. If there was no hydrogen, the lives of stars would be in millions of years instead of billions of years and it is doubtful life, let alone intelligent life would have had time to evolve. There are many, many ways to get a stillborn Universe by having a wrong constant or physical law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
What requirements could the universe possibly have to allow for a free will? We can see our lives as many choices that we can freely make. Nevertheless, before we choose to do something it is just a possibility. Possibilities are what this universe must have (what seems to be an infinite amount of) in order for life to have a free will. The universe must be balanced at a point where there are infinite amounts of possibilities so we can have an infinite amount of choices.
Choices are illusions of the mind. Nothing special. The infinite choices scenario is bullshit. ‘It was all finished long ago.’

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Now we must ask the question is there a God.
OK, I will answer you – yes there is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
GOD

“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John (8:32)
KJV
Tell it to those Bible characters that lied to Pharaoh telling him their wives were their sisters to save their sorry asses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
This theory could possibly reveal to us that there is not a God. The simplest answer would be that the universe exists by its very nature. However, we once thought that the earth was flat which was the simplest and most obvious answer. God could also exist by his very nature. With out the bible we would not know anything about him.
I have a lot of good jokes too. Its hard to beat the Bible for jokes though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Therefore, we must see if the bible can prove to us that he exists. In order for us to keep our search honest, we must give God a chance to prove himself to us.
God is so thrilled to know you have defined what he must do for you. I saw a circus act once where tigers jumped through hoops of fire also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
What could prove that there is a God or not? It seems that physical evidence could go both ways. We cannot use personal testimony because chances are that no matter what you believe, you are (even as you are reading this) trying to find reasons why your beliefs are right.
God is an experience. Not a concept. Appletaste cannot be proven/if I never tasted an apple no amount of a priori words could convey the experience of appletaste either. God can be experienced directly by concentration leading to samadhi. Indirectly by things that happen in life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
The bible says this in Proverbs (12:15). “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.”
Proverbs is a spin-off of Platonic Forms. Eternal, Unchanging, Forms. Platonic Forms became Jewish Wisdom Literature/Torah and Proverbs in particular – ‘By me do kings reign. The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his work before all his deeds of old. When he fashioned the heavens I was there. When he set limits at the sea, …..’ etc How did God create the world? With Wisdom. The Demiurge in the Timaeus used the Divine Mind/Forms to create the Universe. The Jews made Torah the Forms. Christians wound up calling Jesus (The Son/Logos) these Platonic Forms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
It appears that no matter how much logic we use someone could always deny it. Therefore, it must be that we have the free will to choose our beliefs as individuals, based on our own reasoning, knowledge, and our own understanding. It may not matter what you believe to be the truth because every belief is taken on faith. This is leading back to the fact that all things are possible. The bible shows this in Matthew (19:26). “But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, with men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
That only tells me how ambiguous the bible is. ‘Men’ – how about ego-mind personalities in bodies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
In philosophy, we cannot quite figure out who we are. When asked who I am I could say my name. However, a name is just a title. It is a way for us to classify and recognize each other. It does not really reveal who I am. I could give characteristics about myself, but it could take a lifetime to get to know who I am. Even that may fall short because you do not know my thoughts. If God is a living God and we are in his image, then he should have a similar problem.
No, no, no. Don’t dumb God down to a mind. You think you are your mind but you are ignorant. That God created man in his own Essence does not mean God has 2 arms and 2 legs etc. That is man creating God in his own image. We are immortal souls that were never born and cannot die. But I want you to understand your own nonsense philosophically how this cannot be. All things that have forms/shapes have boundaries. They are limited. So are you now going to tell me God is limited as well. As soon as you define something, you limit it. That is what a definition is for. To distinguish clearly one thing from another. By defining God you attempt to put God in a box. As I already said, God is an experience. Not a definition/concept/idea/theory/your cute little religions nonsense. You have Plato, Descartes and science to blame for your ignorant notion that you are your mind and God is some kind of mind. That is why all of philosophy in the West is mostly garbage. Wrong initial starting ass umptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
The bible gives what seems to be a perfect reflection of this in Exodus (3:13-14). “And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I am that I am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I am hath sent me unto you.”
I don’t think much of the Bible for a ton of reasons. We are God. God is not some separate entity from us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
If God is or if he is like a father to us then how he interacts with us must change as our knowledge and understanding increases. At one time God must have treated us like a kid. God gave Adam and Eve only one rule. He told them not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Why would God only give us one rule?
I could ponder Spiderman also. It has about as much to do with reality as the Bible. If you are going to try to make sense out of nonsense – talk to TIA, IAJ on Religion forum.

Bible nonsense cut out.

Conclusion, you are easily impressed with the bible. If you were born in China you would be a buddhist. If all you have is a hammer (bible), you think all else is some kind of nail (evil).

Mike Dubbeld
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:30 PM
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Only Mike can do this.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:51 PM
KennethSearcy KennethSearcy is offline
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We cannot use personal testimony because chances are that no matter what you believe, you are (even as you are reading this) trying to find reasons why your beliefs are right. The bible says this in Proverbs (12:15). “The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.”
It appears that no matter how much logic we use someone could always deny it. Therefore, it must be that we have the free will to choose our beliefs as individuals, based on our own reasoning, knowledge, and our own understanding. It may not matter what you believe to be the truth because every belief is taken on faith.
thank you Mike for proving my point.
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Old 05-23-2006, 06:57 PM
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All that for nothing, eh?
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Old 05-24-2006, 02:43 AM
KennethSearcy KennethSearcy is offline
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"An hypocrite with his mouth destroys his neighbor; but through knowledge shall the just be delivered."

Proverbs (11:9)
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Old 05-24-2006, 11:53 AM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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Shouldn't this be on the religion forum? Quoting from scripture says religion to me. OK, fine. Faith is not a virtue. There are no chosen people. There are no saviors. There is no such thing as sin or evil only cause and effect. The universe is not a few thousand years old. The bible caused a lot of harm as well as good. The gospels that were of any real value were left out of the bible by logical literal idiots. The neoplatonists and the gnostics were mostly right. Most of the bible is nothing but exaggerated stories/mythology. If Abraham, Jacob and David were around today they would be in prison. The snoptic gospels contradict each other and John. Some of it is outright lies that has been caught/can be proven to be so. Each gospel had a specific bias/agenda. Mark was the first Gospel not Mathew and is closest to any truth there was about Jesus. If it wasn't for the bible attempting to thwart science every step of the way, The European Enlightenment might have happened 1000 years sooner. Galileo was told by the church he could not possibly have seen another moon around Jupiter as the church had not authorized another heavenly body to be in the sky. Bruno was burned at the stake - HARM - just like literal interpretations of the bible today give God a BAD NAME. It leads the world to think you have to be an idiot to believe in God. Cultural dogma and ignorance 2000 years old still around.

Hypocrite is in the eye of the beholder. You need to be 'destroyed.' You need to have your bible bubble burst. Islam is also a religon and also thinks it is the greatest religion. You get fanaticism out of religions with the latest example being people strapping themselves to bombs. Good reason to be an atheist I would say. Go ahead. Make my day. Tell me the universe is a few thousand years old - HARM comes out of the bible also.

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Old 05-24-2006, 03:55 PM
KennethSearcy KennethSearcy is offline
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You need to be 'destroyed.
This sounds like what a suicide bomber would say.

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Islam is also a religon and also thinks it is the greatest religion.
Forgive me, but it sounds like you have the same feelings for your beliefs.

Are apples always red?

My reasoning tells me no because I ate a green one last week. But what if someone has only seen red apples. Their Reasoning would say yes that they are always red. Their Reasoning would be right based on the knowledge that they have.
Everyones reasoning will lead to their own beliefs because we all want to be right. Therefore, in order to find the truth we must leave our desires behind. I'm not wanting to argue. I want to know if this theory makes sence to any one else, if not then why.
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:58 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
This sounds like what a suicide bomber would say.
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Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Location: white oak texas
HAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!1!!!111!!! HAhahahaha, I'ts sad"! Ha!
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Old 05-24-2006, 06:08 PM
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quite.
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Old 05-26-2006, 08:43 PM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
This sounds like what a suicide bomber would say.
You brought the subject up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Forgive me, but it sounds like you have the same feelings for your beliefs.
Excuse me? Beliefs? As in faith? Sorry, I don't have faith in any religion. Faith is something you walk around with until you get the facts. It is not a virtue.

Are apples always red?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
My reasoning tells me no because I ate a green one last week. But what if someone has only seen red apples.
You mean like the bible? You mean had you been born in china you would have been a buddhist? You have only seen red apples/bibles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Their Reasoning would say yes that they are always red. Their Reasoning would be right based on the knowledge that they have.
Your reasoning is correct. Go over on the What is Knowledge post and state that exactly as you have done here. It is mind-worship city over there. They know logic (only red apples) there also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
Everyones reasoning will lead to their own beliefs because we all want to be right. Therefore, in order to find the truth we must leave our desires behind. I'm not wanting to argue. I want to know if this theory makes sence to any one else, if not then why.
The metaphor is 'there are many paths to the top of a mountain.' Hedonist atheists are accelerating downhill/headed for a cliff. That's OK though cause they have lots of logic to show how logical it is to do it.....

Mike Dubbeld
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Old 05-27-2006, 11:25 AM
KennethSearcy KennethSearcy is offline
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We can try to define knowledge and classify the deffrent types. However, generally knowledge is information that helps us to understand the world around us. Although our knowledge is about the universe it is separate from the universe. Like the word-book-is separate from the object. It is our assosiation of the word with the object that gives the word meaning and furthers our understanding of the object.

If we pour jello into a cup the jello conforms to the charicteristics of the cup.(shape) Like jello knowledge conforms to our charicteristics. Problems with our reasoning should reflect charicteristics about our selves. Like our free will. As well as the fact that everyones reasoning leads them to there own beliefs and desires.
Quote:
When trying to understand the outside world our questions lead us to our mental selves. This is not a problem but a choice. We can choose to accept it as a fact or not. If we do not except it then all we can do is wait for the proof we need to make it a solid theory. If we do except it as a fact then when we reduce it, it will take us to our minds and we will be forced to ask the question again.
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Old 05-31-2006, 11:39 PM
KennethSearcy KennethSearcy is offline
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Choices are illusions of the mind. Nothing special.
I don't see how u can say that we don't have a freewill. If every thing is just cause and effect then the cause would have to make the effect happen. The cause would be me kicking a ball and the effect would be the ball rolling. But the question is what cause made me kick the ball. Could it be because I seen the ball? I have seen the ball many times and did not kick it. That would mean that the cause rarely has an effect. We could say that the cause is mental. We could say that i kicked it because i was in a good mood or a bad mood. But if something as simple as our freewill is an illusion then everything that is mental is based on an illusion. We would then be using an illusion to prove that our freewill in an illusion. (something like circular reasoning) This may mean that the only way to prove it is an illusion is by something phisical. The only way i even know that the ball is there is because i seen it. I don't think there is enough light reflecting off of the ball to MAKE me kick it.
After we make a choice you can find a cause and effect but that does not mean we don't have a freewill. Many times when we define something we lose some of it's value.
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Old 06-01-2006, 01:06 AM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennethSearcy
I don't see how u can say that we don't have a freewill. If every thing is just cause and effect then the cause would have to make the effect happen. The cause would be me kicking a ball and the effect would be the ball rolling. But the question is what cause made me kick the ball. Could it be because I seen the ball? I have seen the ball many times and did not kick it. That would mean that the cause rarely has an effect. We could say that the cause is mental. We could say that i kicked it because i was in a good mood or a bad mood. But if something as simple as our freewill is an illusion then everything that is mental is based on an illusion. We would then be using an illusion to prove that our freewill in an illusion. (something like circular reasoning) This may mean that the only way to prove it is an illusion is by something phisical. The only way i even know that the ball is there is because i seen it. I don't think there is enough light reflecting off of the ball to MAKE me kick it.
After we make a choice you can find a cause and effect but that does not mean we don't have a freewill. Many times when we define something we lose some of it's value.
The reason we do things is from samskaras. Samskaras are past impressions left in the mind that have desires associated with them. You go to a store to buy something. You pass by a tennis racket noticing it, buy what you came for and leave. Next time you are in the store you may buy the tennis racket. You developed a subconscious desire for it. You developed a samskara for it. There are thousands of samskaras in everyone's mind they are not consciously aware of. A mystic is someone that watches their mind think. They learn to understand these hidden desires and not react to them. Samskaras are the reason you were born. The desires left over in past lives pulled your soul (caused the 'fall') into the current body and you are working these samskaras out and creating fresh ones at the same time. You are working out the effects of past causes and creating fresh causes at the same time in ignorance. We all are and that is the cause of all birth and death from a 1-celled bacteria to you. Desires are the cause of birth (and suffering).

The mind has free will because it cannot predict the future with certainty. It thinks itself to be making decisions in the future that could be otherwise. The entire population of the world believes in free will to one extent or another - if we did not there would be no police, armies, jails etc. But from an omincient standpoint the future is already known/determined. We are only acting out what is already known. There is no reason to be concerned with it as there is nothing you can do about it. The only time relevance arises with regard to free will is when talking about God who is omniscient and we are too potentially but not our ego-minds. We are not our ego-minds but are indestructible, immortal souls. Evil and sin are fanciful inventions of men that could not explain cause and effect. In a single lifetime something may appear to be unjust but no one gets away with anything whatsoever.

At death we are judged but not by St. Peter but our own karma. God has no more to do with our judgement than a rock falling off a mountain does/that is not divine either but simply cause and effect. If you knew directly of your indestructibility from personal experience all these things become laughable. 'Evil' and sin and death. Death is not bad. Simply because the mind fears the unknown we lable it 'bad'. Fear of the unknown is a basic psychological fear unexplainable in modern science but it is from death in the past lives that were painful. Traumatically repressed memories that can be brought back out again under the proper conditions.

To a mind freewill is real. But we are not our minds. Our minds can be transcended. All causes in our universe can be traced back to the Big Bang ultimately. God is not part of the universe. The universe 'dances' to God's Tune. The universe attempts to mimic consciousness and we get bodies. 'Forms.' Kundalini 'sleeps' in Muladhara the Earth Chakra. The 'form' chakra. With the breaking of symmetry the universe condensed out into various forms and that was the last thing God did so to speak. But the 'forms' are nothing more than waves and their superpositions interfering with each other giving rise to phenomena/a popping of the wave function into something 'particular.' Justice is a 'wave'. 35 miles per hour is a 'form' - something particular. A particle (of justice). A decision in a mind is also a poping of the wave function by ego (ahamkara). Making decisions with perceived free will.

These vrittis (waves) are our universe. Swami Vivekananda

Mike Dubbeld
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