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  #1  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:48 AM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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Science Invents God

From another post ---

Have you heard the latest atheist joke - remember the Susskind multiverse of 10^500 universe's to explain the miracles in this universe? (In the face of the scientific worship of Ockham's razor where the simplest explanation is the most likely correct one making the multiverse theory 10^500 times less likely.) They have gone far far beyond that and guess where they found themselves? They found themselves inventing God as an explanation for the miracles in this universe. I kid you not. But it is the SCIENTIFIC VERSION of God...... We are a simulation as a consequence of an infinite multiverse where since it is far easier for an 'advanced civilization' to create a simulated universe than the creation of a real one - it follows that there are many many more simulated universe's than real ones and therefore it is far far more likely that our universe is not real but simulated. That is, all the laws of physics and the constants of physics are all nothing more than the parameters invented by the programmer and you and I are nothing more than simulations. (gravity, magnetism, heat etc - all programmer inventions) Like the movie The Matrix.

'Miracles' in this simulated universe are flaws in the program. So the programmer created the universe, created life, can do miracles, can even read our thoughts and is 'transcendent' to our universe as well as can destroy the universe at any time. GOD. All this just to get rid of God. However, it can be asked 'who created the programmer?' and 'what preceded the programmer' and his universe? You are right back to where you started from before inventing all these things with MORE explanations required - not less like the multiverse was supposed to do..... Is all that mess more or less likely than a real God and a real universe....... Or maybe - maybe the programmer was created by another programmer. The programmer A of our universe just might be part of another simulated universe created by programmer B. (Matrix nightmares....) After all with an infinite universe such a scenario is not only possible but Likely...... So we have our simulated universe created by programmer A whose universe is also simulated (unknown to him also - he thinks it is real like we do...) by programmer B. But who is to say that B's universe is not also simulated.... In fact, we just might have an infinite regress of nested simulated universe's.......Which came first the chicken - opps the programmer or the programmed....

How many atheists does it take to change a universe......

Hey!!! Don't blame the atheists. Joseph in the bible can have dreams? - atheists can too.....
Mike Dubbeld
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2007, 04:57 AM
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leouna leouna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dubbeld
How many atheists does it take to change a universe......

Hey!!! Don't blame the atheists. Joseph in the bible can have dreams? - atheists can too.....
Mike Dubbeld
Considering which dreams come true is another path to God.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:33 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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It is correct that science is nothing different than chasing a non-personal GodHead, Monotheism and Creationism. Only they have not figured this out yet, or wish different descriptions of it. They went round the mulbury and came smack in front of Genesis - and smirking zionists saying: 'I told you so!'.

MONOTHEISM IS THE GREATEST SCIENCE THEORY OF ALL, AND A TRUE ZIONIST PLOT.

I told you so.
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:37 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leouna
Considering which dreams come true is another path to God.

Incorrect. Dreams can be resultant from indegestion only.
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  #5  
Old 08-10-2007, 01:38 PM
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Mister Agenda Mister Agenda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dubbeld
From another post ---

Have you heard the latest atheist joke - remember the Susskind multiverse of 10^500 universe's to explain the miracles in this universe? (In the face of the scientific worship of Ockham's razor where the simplest explanation is the most likely correct one making the multiverse theory 10^500 times less likely.) They have gone far far beyond that and guess where they found themselves? They found themselves inventing God as an explanation for the miracles in this universe. I kid you not. But it is the SCIENTIFIC VERSION of God...... We are a simulation as a consequence of an infinite multiverse where since it is far easier for an 'advanced civilization' to create a simulated universe than the creation of a real one - it follows that there are many many more simulated universe's than real ones and therefore it is far far more likely that our universe is not real but simulated. That is, all the laws of physics and the constants of physics are all nothing more than the parameters invented by the programmer and you and I are nothing more than simulations. (gravity, magnetism, heat etc - all programmer inventions) Like the movie The Matrix.

'Miracles' in this simulated universe are flaws in the program. So the programmer created the universe, created life, can do miracles, can even read our thoughts and is 'transcendent' to our universe as well as can destroy the universe at any time. GOD. All this just to get rid of God. However, it can be asked 'who created the programmer?' and 'what preceded the programmer' and his universe? You are right back to where you started from before inventing all these things with MORE explanations required - not less like the multiverse was supposed to do..... Is all that mess more or less likely than a real God and a real universe....... Or maybe - maybe the programmer was created by another programmer. The programmer A of our universe just might be part of another simulated universe created by programmer B. (Matrix nightmares....) After all with an infinite universe such a scenario is not only possible but Likely...... So we have our simulated universe created by programmer A whose universe is also simulated (unknown to him also - he thinks it is real like we do...) by programmer B. But who is to say that B's universe is not also simulated.... In fact, we just might have an infinite regress of nested simulated universe's.......Which came first the chicken - opps the programmer or the programmed....

How many atheists does it take to change a universe......

Hey!!! Don't blame the atheists. Joseph in the bible can have dreams? - atheists can too.....
Mike Dubbeld
You got us, Mike! It is only logical to assume that any speculation any atheist anywhere comes up with is representative of atheists in general. There are volumes filled with the moronic ideas of theists, Mike. You guys won the absurdity race long ago, we can never catch up. You've got a few guys who find the simulation idea plausible? I can point to a million that think their founder had magic glasses.
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  #6  
Old 08-10-2007, 02:29 PM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Science Invents God


Or is it the other way around?
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2007, 01:24 AM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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It came straight out of Cosmic Jackpot by Paul Davies. Copyright April 2007. I should have included it as a reference. These are the sorts of arguments that go on between knowledgeable people in science. Science just doesn't know where to draw the line. The Big Bang is not testable either but it is taught in school/accepted and so is General Relativity even though Inertial Frame Dragging is only being tested in 2007. If you accept a multiverse with no proof, it is a small leap to accept the multiverse is infinite. If it is infinite, it is likely there are advanced civilizations capable of producing simulated universe's even if no such civilizations have ever been detected...... It gets into what indirect proof of a theory is allowable and not.

Its a bunch of baloney from my point of view. The same author makes the same mistakes the whole lot of science does - Ass ume they are their mind and therefore God is some kind of mind (with its associated limitations and paradoxes that follow with a limited god). Davies like the rest also Ass umes that mind and consciousness are synonyms and they are not. So all their so-called speculation is based on false premises to begin with. Yoga has no interest whether there is a single universe or multiverse from square one. This junk is argued between biblers and atheists alone. It is irrelevant which ever 'side' appears to be correct. They are both far off from being true based on false assumptions made by atheists and bizarre assumptions made by biblers.

The funny thing is that even with superior knowledge the atheist scientists step on themselves all over the place attempting to refute a god invented by biblers. How interesting they cannot even refute the god of the Bible and in fact the more data they get about the universe the deeper the hole they dig themselves into/less they are able to explain the universe without the help of a supernatural agency!

Mike Dubbeld
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2007, 03:51 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dubbeld
If you accept a multiverse with no proof, it is a small leap to accept the multiverse is infinite. If it is infinite, it is likely there are advanced civilizations capable of producing simulated universe's even if no such civilizations have ever been detected...... It gets into what indirect proof of a theory is allowable and not.
He may be regarded big in the science community, but I actually found Davies a dismal mind, in his conclusions, and in debates with promonent non-athiest scientists, and one with an educated rabbi. He only proved to me that chess champions can make poor war generals.

Re Multi universes, more than it proving infinity, it appears this was resorted to only to condone the infinite premise: there is no proof other than academic of other universes. It is jargon and gibberish from its blatant contradiction, if not from a hedy scientific explanation: at first we are agreeing here, that 'this' universe is finite [how else can we discuss other universes?!]. But the finite universe dislodges atheism and Paul Davies' premises - thus the resorting to other universe scenarios as its escapism.

The second contradiction is that life does not exist elsewhere - indicated by no imprints of it in the known universe for 4.5 Billion years - this factor reverses the equation of advanced civilizations subsequent to the multi-universe conclusion. I notice in both scenarios science has seccumbed to the unverifiable, millions of years deflection as its only claim - which says something about where science is today, and what it has become - it ain't science anymore, and far more extreme than any religion! Pigs can fly - according to such reasonings.
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2007, 04:27 AM
Mike Dubbeld Mike Dubbeld is offline
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Judaism is mythology. It is not about who can tell the biggest whopper.....
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2007, 05:04 AM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dubbeld
Judaism is mythology. It is not about who can tell the biggest whopper.....
Nope. Mythology is Zeus - which is devoid of verifiable historicity, laws, statutes, dates, names and numbers - and these are pervasive only in one scripture - at a juncture far ahead of its spacetime.

Monotheism is a 100% scientific theory, which introduced science, medicine, evolution, democracy, alphabetical books, Creationism, and all the laws and statutes which turns the world today. Controversial new premises like ID are inclinations towards Creationism and its science of Cause & Effect, and a clear dis-incline of Random. Science does not prevail with Random - nor the absolute acceptance of Creationism - the latter may be one reason the ultimate answers are witheld from humanity: if known, why investigate further - and how then will our knowledge status and vocab be improved? What does 'I WILL GIVE YOU YOUR RAINS IN ITS DUE TIME - THE EARLY RAINS AND THE LATER RAINS' mean - it becomes superflous outside that knowledge descends from heaven - in its due time only - which is an inexplicable phenomenon. Penicilin was discovered by accident - and humanity would not have survived without it.

Creationism is akin to MC2 - the first scientific [away from occultism] ponderings of the universe. The BBT emerged from the first pointer the universe began at a beginning point [it is finite]; in cosmic days [epochs of time]; a chronological protocol applies; life came at the finale of 'The Table is Set' premise - ushering speech endowed humans with awareness being the final act of creation; and that all new creation is ceased. Which part of myth do you not understand - that a msytery prevails upon humanity which is transcendent of science?

Last edited by IamJoseph; 08-11-2007 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 08-11-2007, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Dubbeld
Judaism is mythology. It is not about who can tell the biggest whopper.....
Theology involves the story, but Judaism transends mythology, if Jews keep their own traditions, apart from other religions.
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2007, 03:51 PM
IamJoseph IamJoseph is offline
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Originally Posted by leouna
if Jews keep their own traditions, apart from other religions.
Then LET MY PEOPLE GO already. You stopped them leaving club Europa for 2000 years - and now you accuse them of the crime of returning where they came from. Make you mind up? Israel is erecting a wall - so you won't be able to even see them anymore. There's another tradition filling the place Jews had in Europe - have fun in Shariah instead of the OT. Is there any other request?
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:31 PM
SpudWithKnife SpudWithKnife is offline
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The infinite regress proves infinity. As does PI.

I am really just a stupid person but my understanding was that PI is basically an infinite number. The digits of PI are arranged in a certain way as to never have the number end. Scientists are working on PI with supercomputers that can calculate PI at astonishing speeds. It seems more likely that a super computer could be put into a space ship and go on calculating PI indefinitely while it traversed the universe than for PI to be a limited number.

So mathematics has basically proved an infinite.

Likewise, God needs a God needs a God and so on... this is the infinite regress. Another infinity! Where do all these infinities seem to be coming from?

Of course God is infinite otherwise it would not be God. Try to think of a God that is not infinite. You cannot really do it. Try, by all means. On the other hand, the only argument against God is against religion. And although this is a valid argument in its own right, it is not an argument against an infinite God.

Judaism is a religion with ritualism, messiahs, cremation, and murder. Its God(s) are barbaric monster tyrants, and its creed is, "God chose us as special people". That an infinite God would choose a race of people on this planet out of hundreds of races as special is more than a coincidence and more than a synchroncity; it is just made up bullshit. It is probably based on greed in the form of occupying territories violently. Twisting history to suit its needs. To defend a religion like Judaism is the height of insanity. Judaism didn't invent the computer and internet, nor did it even contain literal references to them in its scriptures. The technology of 2007 proves that history is a linear progression of upward evolution, the Jews knew nothing of it. If they did know of it and coached it in symbolic language that no one can decipher instead of literal language that everyone can decipher, as scriptures always tend to do, then we should be able to find it. It is not there.

The question is whether religion provides morals. The answer is definitely "no". Religion is all kinds of things, bits of history mixed with folklore and myths, twisted history, politics, and government of peoples. But collecting all this and writing it into a code of morals is just manipulating people into beliefs or deaths. It is actually political. Morals are human.

Atheism and religion suck.
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:49 PM
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//RELIGION IS FOR FOLLOWERS AND COWARDS//

I WAS FORCED TO GO TO A TEMPLE TO STUDY JUDAISM MY ENTIRE CHILD HOOD AND AS I GREW AND STUDIED MANY RELIGIONS AND HISTORY ,PSYCHOLOGY,SOCIOLOGY ETC,,
IT BECAME EVIDENT THAT ALL RELIGIONS ARE ABSURD HUMAN CREATIONS TO MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER AND TO CONTROL THE POPULATION .
THE FACT THAT ONE WAS STARTED BEFORE ANOTHER OR THAT ONE WAS MADE BY MANY RELIGIONS CONCENTRATED TO FORM ONE DOES NOT GIVE ONE MORE VALUE OR WORTH THEN THE OTHER.
MAN MADE FANTASY, PRIMITIVE ,ANTIQUATED AND A VERY UGLY PART OF MANS HISTORY.
WE NEED TO EVOLVE AND GET AWAY FROM ALL THE LIES ,
RELIGION TENDS TO SEPERATE PEOPLE THEY WILL FIGHT TO THE DEATH OVER FALSE GODS,,
ITS LIKE GROUPS OF MONKEYS FIGHTING FOR NOTHING BUT WHATEVER REASON THEY DEEM .....
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:21 PM
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I thought lot about this idea after becoming self aware. This is one of my first threads after coming to FC to discuss reality,

http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/show...6509#post36509

If one could continuously embed realities within more realities, how far could you go? If a normal civilizations existence could come out to max 1,000,000 years, that's still not that long. Couldn't you take that mil and exponentially increase its span?

Each level is still sourced at awareness, so if this is reality it is just another aspect to the order of consciousness. Like any bit of knowledge, it doesn't change anything about reality other than how we are oriented within it.
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