FrostCloud Forums  

Go Back   FrostCloud Forums > Philosophy > Religion

Greetings!

Religion Discussions on religions, mysticism, and spirituality as well as opposing views such as agnosticism and atheism.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-10-2004, 11:48 PM
Lycan T's Avatar
Lycan T Lycan T is offline
One of Many
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 346
Another way to explaine xtian views

Hope this is not a double post -- I take no credit for this masterpiece!! It is good reading though!!!

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and he kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise; maybe you'll win a small lotto; maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?

John: "Hank has certain connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:

Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't drink.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.

Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says Everything Hanks says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But #9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with #2. And #6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2; 9 just clarifies 2. As to 6, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's
circular logic
, no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary blushes. John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary looks positively stricken. John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary faints. John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you where one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
__________________
All legends have roots, all myths could be real.
THE MORE A PERSON KNOWS, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO LIE TO THEM!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-11-2004, 12:00 AM
Fallen Fallen is offline
Believer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 52
Interesting......

If the John and Mary fanatics are supposed to Christian fundamentalists, then I think someone somewhere has missed a spot.

Why would John be laughing when "the shit gets kicked out of you"? It makes sense in this story, but if the above are meant to portray fundamentalists then there won't be laughing, there won't be remorse either (we all deserve Hell).
__________________
“…for the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
Robert Jastrow
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-11-2004, 01:29 AM
Lycan T's Avatar
Lycan T Lycan T is offline
One of Many
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 346
OH MY!

Ok..if I have to explain it...

The above is how silly the belife system is in the xtian idea is! Please use your head???!!

Your blind faith is based on a book that 'has no mistakes' writen by 'man who is full of faults' by a 'god who you have to trust by...faith'. It is a circle that cannot be broken!!
__________________
All legends have roots, all myths could be real.
THE MORE A PERSON KNOWS, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO LIE TO THEM!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-11-2004, 02:09 AM
Amergain's Avatar
Amergain Amergain is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Inverness-shire, UK
Posts: 1,195
Send a message via Yahoo to Amergain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen
Interesting......

If the John and Mary fanatics are supposed to Christian fundamentalists, then I think someone somewhere has missed a spot.
I have engaaged in debates with American Fundamentalists who when they get frustrated respond, in similar ways. "When you die, you will find out the truth of Jesus, the hard way" Or "I know that I will be with the Lord and you will be burning in Hell." In personal debates those comments are made with a sardonic smile on the face of the Christian. It is rather like Jack Van Impe or Pat Robertson, describing the battle of Armageddon, rivers of blood, millions killed, and millions burning in Hell. They do it with that scary glassy eyed smile. I realise that those two may be daft, but many "normal" believers seem to enjoy telling us that we are going to Hell, especially if we have raised serious challenges that they couldn't rebut.

Quote:
Why would John be laughing when "the shit gets kicked out of you"? It makes sense in this story, but if the above are meant to portray fundamentalists then there won't be laughing, there won't be remorse either (we all deserve Hell).
In Summa Theologica, Aquinas, considers the issue of whether the righteous will have pity on the damned. In his classical debate style he tries to phrase his argument against a counter argument. But in conclusion, he says that the damned deserve no pity, as their being in Hell is Justice.

It is Just to be condemned to Hell for not believing in something invisible, unapproachable, immeasurable, inaudible, intangible, and implausible. In other words, an entity that has hidden itself so well as to imply non-existence, will punish humans for not believing what appears to not be there.

Amergain
__________________
Religion is an irrational meme complex, a computer virus of the brain. It inhibits rational, analytical, and sceptical screening (Rubbish filter). The results are gullibility, superstition, paranoia, hate, and violence.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-11-2004, 02:36 AM
Pitchforkpat Pitchforkpat is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 988
I hadn't heard that Lycan. Thanks.

I get a sardonic smile when I watch Christians trying to rationalize Hell. I'm just amazed by people like Fallen who can blythlely say "they deserve it." I couldn't possibly go dancing, singing, and laughing around in Heaven knowing that my DOG was burning in Hell, far less people I love (or any human for that matter, including anyone who for some reason hates me).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-11-2004, 02:49 AM
Lycan T's Avatar
Lycan T Lycan T is offline
One of Many
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 346
Just doing my part

Take it and use it...I have let lots of xtians read this and it has helped to wake them from their slumber!! -- User where u can!
__________________
All legends have roots, all myths could be real.
THE MORE A PERSON KNOWS, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO LIE TO THEM!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-11-2004, 02:57 AM
0ddity's Avatar
0ddity 0ddity is offline
Bah Humbug
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galaxy Supercluster
Posts: 9,828
Blog Entries: 37
That is an awesome story. Not surprising Fallen didn't understand it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-11-2004, 06:24 PM
Full_Moon's Avatar
Full_Moon Full_Moon is offline
The moon is always Full
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,241
Thats utterly hilarious. A joke, not parallel no worries fallen. I can definately apreciate that humor though, so many people are like that. Thanks.

I don't think anyone is trying to say its true (ref oddity)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-11-2004, 06:39 PM
Full_Moon's Avatar
Full_Moon Full_Moon is offline
The moon is always Full
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Moon
Thats utterly hilarious. A joke, not parallel no worries fallen. I can definately apreciate that humor though, so many people are like that. Thanks.

I don't think anyone is trying to say its true (ref oddity)
I suppose I could clarify why some would think thats like Christianty.

I say: God is God because God is God. Like another might say: The tree is made of wood because thats what the tree is made of. We could always go into more detail but thats the basics.

If someone says to me: Where is God? I say LOOK. lol. Look with the heart, its nothing hidden for those who see. All might seem like a circle but no more than a blind man trying to see the tree made of wood and thinking its a dumb statement, obviously he can't see whats there. We say the grass is green because thats what we call it.

God is God because thats what we call it and thats what it is. God. (you might have guessed, my all time favorite word)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-11-2004, 06:56 PM
Lycan T's Avatar
Lycan T Lycan T is offline
One of Many
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Moon

If someone says to me: Where is God? I say LOOK. lol. Look with the heart, its nothing hidden for those who see. All might seem like a circle but no more than a blind man trying to see the tree made of wood and thinking its a dumb statement, obviously he can't see whats there. We say the grass is green because thats what we call it.

God is God because thats what we call it and thats what it is. God. (you might have guessed, my all time favorite word)
Which brings me to my point in another thread: (the God is Personal thread)

My point: Your god is what you need to have in your life to be happy. Santa made you happy as a child...god makes you happy now...the same idea is there, as well as the same end results, Neither exist.
__________________
All legends have roots, all myths could be real.
THE MORE A PERSON KNOWS, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO LIE TO THEM!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-11-2004, 07:15 PM
Pitchforkpat Pitchforkpat is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 988
Full Moon

Quote:
I say: God is God because God is God. Like another might say: The tree is made of wood because thats what the tree is made of. We could always go into more detail but thats the basics.
What more detail could you go into? The tree is made of wood, because it certainly is and especially because it definately is and therefore since the tree is made of wood then that must be what it is made of, so that the madeup of the tree is totally woody?

There, I've spared you the trouble. You see FM, you claim to have a critical, analytical mind, but this is the circular nonsense you keep giving us.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-11-2004, 07:41 PM
Lycan T's Avatar
Lycan T Lycan T is offline
One of Many
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchforkpat
Full Moon

What more detail could you go into? The tree is made of wood, because it certainly is and especially because it definately is and therefore since the tree is made of wood then that must be what it is made of, so that the madeup of the tree is totally woody?

There, I've spared you the trouble. You see FM, you claim to have a critical, analytical mind, but this is the circular nonsense you keep giving us.
Playing devils advocate (for xtians --lol) -- as a former xtian -- I have seen this and used it. If they cannot explain it...'god is god' ... 'we cannot question god' ...'take it by faith'...etc..etc...etc The bible is writen to be VERY vague for that reason. They take the things they like (heavan, hope, joy,) and push them, and the things they don' like or understand they 'take it by faith'. The only way they learn is to get out of the circle of xtian thinking!! And that dose not happen very often!

Been there...done that!!
__________________
All legends have roots, all myths could be real.
THE MORE A PERSON KNOWS, THE MORE DIFFICULT IT IS TO LIE TO THEM!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-11-2004, 10:16 PM
Galphanore's Avatar
Galphanore Galphanore is offline
Devil's Advocate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,554
Send a message via AIM to Galphanore Send a message via Yahoo to Galphanore
I went through that process about six years ago.
__________________
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.
--Confucius

Remember, Democracy can not be spread by the barrel of a gun.

I'm a Libertarian Transhumanist Atheist and a proud member of the reality-based community.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-11-2004, 11:27 PM
Full_Moon's Avatar
Full_Moon Full_Moon is offline
The moon is always Full
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,241
You guys are funny, the bible is ANYTHING but vauge. God is God, I could write book after book just on my simple understanding and all the practicle implications. Its profound and true, beyound the mundane clutter of the mind. Put to rest your thoughts, but you will never put God to rest, only by self-deception. Yet its all according to his Great Will, nothing can stand against him but from his allowance. Our time is limited, what do we choose? To follow the most precious Love? Or to stand proud on our own pathetic power? The Almighy One alone can stand, and we can stand on him, all else will be washed away by the storm. Yes the tree is indeed made of wood, though guard its life as you will, it will one day be dust. Your body and mind will also return to dust.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-11-2004, 11:50 PM
Galphanore's Avatar
Galphanore Galphanore is offline
Devil's Advocate
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,554
Send a message via AIM to Galphanore Send a message via Yahoo to Galphanore
If the bible is not vague then why are there so many different versions of christianity? Each of them is based on their interpretation of that same book, and yet some of them come to quite different conclusions.
__________________
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-- Theodore Roosevelt
To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.
--Confucius

Remember, Democracy can not be spread by the barrel of a gun.

I'm a Libertarian Transhumanist Atheist and a proud member of the reality-based community.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meaninglessness of al views including maths science nightdreamer General Philosophy 3 09-04-2007 02:33 AM
Dark matter, like to hear some views? DrJimbo83 FrostCloud Members 3 02-04-2007 11:54 PM
How can a xtian be wrong? What would it take? Lycan T Religion 82 04-27-2004 03:29 AM
Top Evil People List vicente General Philosophy 43 04-08-2004 07:27 AM
the Xtian God and Love vicente Religion 2 03-23-2004 05:35 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:16 AM.



Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2008 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Hosted and Maintained by The IceStorm Network