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  #16  
Old 04-20-2004, 03:28 AM
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Amergain Amergain is offline
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Cult or Religion is semantic dueling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asar'el
I don't know where you get your definitions from, but they are certainly .. different. I'm content to stick by the general definition of both religion and cult; I am a happy Christian; wether you call my faith a religion or a cult is your business... but I suggest you go with the more popular definitions, or else be prepared to explain yourself over and over...
You are right. It is really irrelevant whether we consider your belief system a religion or cult. I happen to think it is a cult for various reasons of my own. But it doesn't change your beliefs, satisfaction, or world view either way. The real issue here is whether your beliefs are credible, plausible, and rational which is where we should agree to disagree.

Amergain
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2004, 03:40 AM
Asar'el Asar'el is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amergain
You are right. It is really irrelevant whether we consider your belief system a religion or cult. I happen to think it is a cult for various reasons of my own. But it doesn't change your beliefs, satisfaction, or world view either way. The real issue here is whether your beliefs are credible, plausible, and rational which is where we should agree to disagree.

Amergain
Well, not quite... the real issue of the thread was what the author initially asked, not wether you think my belief is credible, etc, where, indeed, we agree to disagree. Neither did I suggest that it is irrelevant what we consider my (our) belief system; in fact, I pointed out that the common definition makes it clearly a religion, not a cult; but if you and others choose to call it a cult, there's nothing to be done about that, except point out that you do so contrary to common opinion
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2004, 04:31 AM
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Christianity is not a cult but a religion. All cults like KKK and the Jehovah's Witnesses their leaders are deliberately deceiving their followers and their followers are not allowed any free thinking at anytime (no questions allowed). This is why Christianity has so many denominations because free thinking is allowed and the denominations have disagreements over minor issues such as baptism at birth or at confirmation etc., etc.
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Robert Jastrow
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2004, 05:02 AM
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Christianity has so many denominations because free thinking is allowed and the denominations have disagreements over minor issues such as baptism at birth or at confirmation etc., etc.
Sure, freethinking is allowed NOW- now that we have laws to keep the different sects from burning each other at the stake. Of course, you could always go to Ireland, (where the catholics and protestants are still fighting) and choose a side. i'm sure that the other side will respect your rights to free thought.
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2004, 05:30 AM
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as always, amergain, great posts--you can put my thoughts into a much better order, and much more beautifully, right on to the computer---------anyway, I see that a lot of people dont like my defintions of a cult and a religion--well--these deffinitions are purely my own--they show what i believe as cult and religion in their simplest forms-----if i explained my point clearly enough and was able to communicate it to you--then my deffinition should not be the object of this thread but rather the question i asked
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  #21  
Old 04-20-2004, 05:54 AM
Asar'el Asar'el is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
as always, amergain, great posts--you can put my thoughts into a much better order, and much more beautifully, right on to the computer---------anyway, I see that a lot of people dont like my defintions of a cult and a religion--well--these deffinitions are purely my own--they show what i believe as cult and religion in their simplest forms-----if i explained my point clearly enough and was able to communicate it to you--then my deffinition should not be the object of this thread but rather the question i asked
So you're asking, "Given MY definition of things, and MY point of view, how do you justify YOURS not fitting into it" ? What purpose does that serve ??
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  #22  
Old 04-20-2004, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asar'el
So you're asking, "Given MY definition of things, and MY point of view, how do you justify YOURS not fitting into it" ? What purpose does that serve ??

Absolutely none, other than to satisfy someone's need to bash others because they think differently.
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  #23  
Old 04-21-2004, 12:51 AM
the shame the shame is offline
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ouch--any of you guys heard of a thing caled the crusades--yea thats where christians tried to commit genocide to the moors--why--because they thought diferently than them
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  #24  
Old 04-21-2004, 12:54 AM
Asar'el Asar'el is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
ouch--any of you guys heard of a thing caled the crusades--yea thats where christians tried to commit genocide to the moors--why--because they thought diferently than them
Ouch... have you ever read about the crusades ? And the reasons behind them (and, indeed, most wars/conflicts/fighting) ?
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2004, 12:55 AM
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airmikee airmikee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
ouch--any of you guys heard of a thing caled the crusades--yea thats where christians tried to commit genocide to the moors--why--because they thought diferently than them

Genocide of the Moors? Or their "liberation" of Jeresulem?

Yes, they were very atrocious acts. Committed by a minority of the people.
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2004, 02:19 AM
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how is my crusade not a liberation--i am trying to liberate the world from the burden of ignorance--i truly dont want to be mean--and i am sorry that my original post made me sound beligerant--i was in a bad mood--its just that all my life ive seen people believing in fairy tales, and then as i grew older i realized that people were dying for these fairy tales--i know you dont think that your religion/cult is false--but is there any reason why someone should kill another man for a belief
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2004, 03:40 AM
Asar'el Asar'el is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
how is my crusade not a liberation--i am trying to liberate the world from the burden of ignorance--i truly dont want to be mean--and i am sorry that my original post made me sound beligerant--i was in a bad mood--its just that all my life ive seen people believing in fairy tales, and then as i grew older i realized that people were dying for these fairy tales--i know you dont think that your religion/cult is false--but is there any reason why someone should kill another man for a belief
Don't you think it's rather arrogant of you to think you're the 'enlightened' one and the world is the ignorant one, and you need to 'liberate' them from 'their delusions' (as in, believing in fairy tales). All your life you have seen ... and then you grew older ... ? How old are you, if you don't mind me asking ? And how much have you seen in your life, that you think qualifies you to such sweeping statements (i.e. liberate the world!) ? And at what point did you 'grow up' ?

You misunderstand greatly what makes someone kill, as you seem to attribute this especially to Christianity. Human behaviour is a lot more complex than saying 'believer = killer', 'non-believer = pacifist'.

You, no doubt, take offence at some passages of scripture, some ideas put forth, that to you seem to espouse just such attitudes. If you truly understood the Christian faith, you would know that Christ's teachings were of peace (despite the out-of-context lines being thrown about); and of suffering wrongdoing for His sake rather than avenging injury. And, despite what you may have heard to the contrary, the Old Testament also preaches peace and love over war and hate.

See, you don't ask 'what do you believe', but instead presume to tell us what our belief is, and demand an explanation ('how can you justify such a belief').
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2004, 05:24 AM
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airmikee airmikee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
how is my crusade not a liberation
WTF are you talking about? I never said YOUR crusade, I said THEIR crusade. Drop the ego and realize that you're not the center of the universe, or every idea in a post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
i know you dont think that your religion/cult is false

Oddly enough, it's not MY religion. I may not agree with it, but I don't believe in tearing anything down based on OPINION.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the shame
but is there any reason why someone should kill another man for a belief

Religion hasn't always been the reasoning behind every persons death at the hand of another person. Do we start banning anything that is the motivation for murder? By the time we got finished with what would be banned, we'd have nothing left.
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2004, 06:51 AM
Asar'el Asar'el is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmikee
Oddly enough, it's not MY religion. I may not agree with it, but I don't believe in tearing anything down based on OPINION.
I find that a sensible thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by airmikee
Religion hasn't always been the reasoning behind every persons death at the hand of another person. Do we start banning anything that is the motivation for murder? By the time we got finished with what would be banned, we'd have nothing left.
Well said
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2004, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amergain
I understood that a religion in the true sense is a belief system with or without a God and not involving the worship of or absolute authority of a human being.

By this (my own criteria), Judaism is a religion. There is a God, and the best humans can do is receive revelation and pass on prophesies. Deism, Buddhism, and Hinduism may be in this category.

Christianity is definitely a cult since it admittedly worships a human being, Jesus. Although it follows the authority of Paul of Tarsus in a cult of personality that also is typically cultish. Jesus didn't even start Christianity as we know it today, Paul did. It is a cult of Paul.

Islam is harder to define. It is a religion in the sense of One God, Allah. Yet the absolute authority of Muhammad is very much like Paul of Tarsus. He and Paul were more than prophets, and actual starters of new cults.

Amergain
You don't believe your own words Amergain, why do you speak them?

Anyone who has ever seen/ heard a Christian worship Paul put up your hand..

Anyone who has met Jesus the man, put up your hand..

No hands? ok, didn't think there was anything to this claim.


For those who care about the question/ answer of this thread, I would direct your attention to the first commandment: "Thou shall have no other gods before me." This means that Christians are strictly forbidden to participate in a cult (of the normal sense). This commandment goes deep into everyone, its number One for a reason. We are to Love God with all our hearts, minds, bodies and spirits. In every thought, word and deed we are to worship(love) him. Nothing is more important than God, and this commandment reflects that. Cults are looked down upon in our society because of Christian influence against them. Throughout history cults have been everywhere, but in Christiandom they are against the law.
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