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  #31  
Old 06-11-2004, 04:12 AM
Fallen Fallen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientius
You are correct in your statement that I would probably treat others inhumanely if given the opportunity, but what exactly led you to believe that I am in a position to be disrespected and treated inhumanely? It isn't as if I were some Iraqi taken prisoner by American troops.

Treat me as your equal? Presume that some god of yours has loving feelings towards me? Take your compassion and evangelical idiocy elsewhere. I not only expect you to treat me as an equal, I would feel uncomfortable if I did not let you know that I think you should address me as a superior. As far as your god loving me, that makes me even more uncomfortable as it would associate me with the views promoted by your cult, which I believe is probably Christianity.

How dare you assume that I or anyone else is incapable of comprehending anything. Speak for yourself, on second thought, keep your ignorant views on "God's love" to yourself.




On a much different note, I would like to try and bring the discussion back towards the topic I had intended to lead into, the removal of the Christian threat to humanity.

I would like to discuss a few distinct possibilities for the execution of this daunting but necessary task.

1) Consolidate political power globally into one dynamic ruler who would be able to eradicate organized religions like Christianity.

2) Take military action at a local level against symbols of organized religion's power including churches, YMCAs, and the homes of families known to be Christian strongholds. (It must be noted, however, that this may result in the creation of martyrs that could aid those remaining in their resistance.)

3) Promote and support organizations that combat the growing power of irresponsible organized religions.
sapien,

You speak of Christianity (my faith!) as a cult, yet the fundamental basis of cults is the fact that they allow no free-thinking amongst their "inferior" followers. You're view of being superior is in the same vein as the leaders of these cults you so lovingly speak of.

No one is superior to another, no matter the amount of intellect. We are all in the same boat! It does not matter what colour or nationality someone is, it does not make them less equal; and I refuse to think of someone like you as superior to me when I have less intelligent friends who deserve more respect!

Maybe you should read Revelation and you can take solice and rejoice! Your proposition of one world leader and a one world government is prophecied and there will be an effort to annihilate all organised religions. But, then again, it would be more wise for you to weep as at the same time that these offensives are occuring 3 out of 4 people will die, and the end will be nigh!

The horror of your suggestions actually shows your ignorance and intolerance to the ideas of others that contradict your own erroneous statements.

And, finally, sapien your assumptions may get out of hand. I did not say that you cannot comprehend anything, I said that there is a God "who loves you so much that it is beyond comprehension." He is an infinite being while you are finite, He loves you with an infinite love that our finite minds can only but feebly grasp. Or I may be wrong and you may be on the same level as God and be an infinite being; knowing all and existing forever.

How can we (finite beings) comprehend that which is infinite when we have no experience of the infinite?

And as for my " compassion and evangelical idiocy" it seems that you need to learn how to be compassionate.

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and keep you.
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“…for the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
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  #32  
Old 06-11-2004, 04:18 AM
Sapientius Sapientius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
Sounds like you're going to start a holy war. Actually sounds like terrorism to me, and sounds a lot like a hate crime which is illegal in all countries. You are transgressing the constitution by even thinking of persecuting people based on their religion.

You are actually going against all laws of humanity on this one, dude.
Thinking is illegal? Who proposed that law? In any case, if thinking of things can be illegal then this whole site should probably be taken down so that none of the people who view it accidentally break the law.

I was only trying to propose a plan of action that might allow the responsible humans to escape the suicidal irresponsibility promoted in the Bible and by its followers. Instead of trying to silence me, why not contribute something useful to the effort? Or do you think some cult is so precious that humanity and all other inhabitants of Earth should suffer extinction order to preserve it.

I am not only suggesting military action. Diplomacy would be my first choice if it is deemed feasible. Perhaps you or someone else could help to elaborate on how unnecessary death could be avoided while still neutralizing threats to humanity.
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  #33  
Old 06-11-2004, 06:17 AM
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I stole most of this from Sapientius!

As far as ANY god loving me, that makes me even more uncomfortable.

I would like to try and bring the removal of the Christian threat to humanity.

I would like to discuss the ONLY distinct possibility for the execution of this daunting but necessary task.

The Volunteer Human Extinction MovemenT (VHEMT) will cure the world of christianity.

Welcome to frostcloud Sapientius. You certainly know how to bring the christians into the Bright light. Thanks for letting me paraphrase and plagarize, I couldn't have done it without you.

Thinking is illegal, or at least could get you arrested and thrown into Guantanamo without charge as an enemy combatant. Others are there with even less against them than that!

I make light, but do understand one and all, the motto of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement is: Live Long and Die Out.

I do not condone or in any way support genocide, ethnicide, or xxxcide, and wish nothing less than a pain-free death due to old age to one and all.

Just don't have any children.
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  #34  
Old 06-11-2004, 02:13 PM
culinarean culinarean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientius
Thinking is illegal? Who proposed that law? In any case, if thinking of things can be illegal then this whole site should probably be taken down so that none of the people who view it accidentally break the law.

I was only trying to propose a plan of action that might allow the responsible humans to escape the suicidal irresponsibility promoted in the Bible and by its followers. Instead of trying to silence me, why not contribute something useful to the effort? Or do you think some cult is so precious that humanity and all other inhabitants of Earth should suffer extinction order to preserve it.

I am not only suggesting military action. Diplomacy would be my first choice if it is deemed feasible. Perhaps you or someone else could help to elaborate on how unnecessary death could be avoided while still neutralizing threats to humanity.
The problem is when ideas turn to actions, and that is how your post came across to me.

A Mafia boss advocates violence, but he doesn't actually carry out what he says. Others do. So is that boss guilty of the actions of his followers? YES. If your words and ideas incite others to break the laws, you are responsible for the results of your words.

Does the KKK Grand Wizard actually kill those he talks against, probably not, but his followers do and he is responsible.

Did Hitler actually pull the switch on the gas chambers? Probably not, but he was the one responsible for those deaths.

So the point is that if you advocate violence and someone acts on your words, you are responsible. Understand this and think of the consequences of your words before you speak them or write them.
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  #35  
Old 06-11-2004, 02:50 PM
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culinarean - What about the Inquisitions by the church. Here are a few excerpts on churchs and violence.

["In 1231, Pope Gregory IX published a decree which called for life imprisonment with salutary penance for the heretic who had confessed and repented and capital punishment for those who persisted. The secular authorities were to carry out the execution. Pope Gregory relieved the bishops and archbishops of this obligation, and made it the duty of the Dominican Order*, though many inquisitors were members of other orders or of the secular clergy. By the end of the decade the Inquisition had become a general institution in all lands under the purview of the Pope. By the end of the 13th centuries the Inquisition in each region had a bureaucracy to help in its function."]

and...

["In 1478 when, at the request of the Spanish sovereigns Ferdinand and Isabella, Pope Sixtus IV (1471-84) issued a papal bull allowing for the creation of the Spanish Inquisition. It lasted until it was "abolished" in 1834, although its most fervent activity was during the 15th and 16th centuries.
The Spanish Inquisition brought about "a reign of terror throughout Europe" which was responsible for the impoverishment, exile, and death of countless Jews, Muslims, and "heretical" Christians."]

By the way the KKK hide in protestant churchs and were allowed to operate from the same churches to spread thier terror and murder blacks and jews. The church knew this condoned and accepted it!

Hitler was a fanatical christian that wanted to rid the earth of the jew heretics.

We could go on and on and on and on about violence advocated (but not necessarily carried out) by the church through out the history of humanity. It is truly pathetic and churns the stomach.
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  #36  
Old 06-11-2004, 02:57 PM
Numberoneson Numberoneson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RA
Hitler was a fanatical christian that wanted to rid the earth of the jew heretics.
And you can also investigate into who helped smuggle former
nazis into south america after wwII.
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  #37  
Old 06-11-2004, 04:15 PM
culinarean culinarean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RA
culinarean - What about the Inquisitions by the church. Here are a few excerpts on churchs and violence.

["In 1231, Pope Gregory IX published a decree which called for life imprisonment with salutary penance for the heretic who had confessed and repented and capital punishment for those who persisted. The secular authorities were to carry out the execution. Pope Gregory relieved the bishops and archbishops of this obligation, and made it the duty of the Dominican Order*, though many inquisitors were members of other orders or of the secular clergy. By the end of the decade the Inquisition had become a general institution in all lands under the purview of the Pope. By the end of the 13th centuries the Inquisition in each region had a bureaucracy to help in its function."]

and...

["In 1478 when, at the request of the Spanish sovereigns Ferdinand and Isabella, Pope Sixtus IV (1471-84) issued a papal bull allowing for the creation of the Spanish Inquisition. It lasted until it was "abolished" in 1834, although its most fervent activity was during the 15th and 16th centuries.
The Spanish Inquisition brought about "a reign of terror throughout Europe" which was responsible for the impoverishment, exile, and death of countless Jews, Muslims, and "heretical" Christians."]

By the way the KKK hide in protestant churchs and were allowed to operate from the same churches to spread thier terror and murder blacks and jews. The church knew this condoned and accepted it!

Hitler was a fanatical christian that wanted to rid the earth of the jew heretics.

We could go on and on and on and on about violence advocated (but not necessarily carried out) by the church through out the history of humanity. It is truly pathetic and churns the stomach.
I have already posted my views on the inquisition and crusades. I agree that they were abominations. Do they persist today? No.

As far as the KKK hiding in churches? OK, they hid in the churches. That does not make their actions being condoned by the church. The KKK hid behind the mask of Christianity, but their actions prove that they weren't true christians.

Hitler was a follower of Arianism. This is a perversion of the Christian faith and would be more technically termed a cult, not Christianity.

The point I was making is that abominations, no matter who created them, are wrong. advocating the destruction of a group of persons based on their race, creed, or sexual preference is an abomination against humanity and the person who advocates this is guilty of the crimes commited by those acting on the idea. I don't care if that person is the Pope. If violence is advocated except in the case of self-defense (or pre-emption against people who are advocating violence), it is morally wrong and repugnant.
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  #38  
Old 06-12-2004, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
I have already posted my views on the inquisition and crusades. I agree that they were abominations. Do they persist today? No.
Of course they do not exist today in the same forms they have existed since the inception of Christianity.
If you choose to believe in anything that has a history well over 1,500 years of torture and murder of untold millions of innocent individuals that is fine. It baffles me though how Christians turn a blind eye to how their religion got started in the first place. Christianity was not born out of the love for humanity and has historically been filled with hate towards others not like themselves. That is a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
As far as the KKK hiding in churches? OK, they hid in the churches. That does not make their actions being condoned by the church. The KKK hid behind the mask of Christianity, but their actions prove that they weren't true christians.
They not only hid in the church the leaders of the church protected them. They new what was going on and made no effort to stop or change it. They new of the torment and murder of countless blacks including young innocent children but still had no voice. In fact the Protestants beleived the KKK had a noble cause. Can't rewrite history my friend. Come on. Get real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
Hitler was a follower of Arianism. This is a perversion of the Christian faith and would be more technically termed a cult, not Christianity.
Ummm! Christianity and all of it's varied fractions are cults as well. How many forms of Christianlty are there? Are you saying you can discount one type but all the other 50 or so types of Christianity are all right. Get real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
The point I was making is that abominations, no matter who created them, are wrong. advocating the destruction of a group of persons based on their race, creed, or sexual preference is an abomination against humanity and the person who advocates this is guilty of the crimes commited by those acting on the idea. I don't care if that person is the Pope. If violence is advocated except in the case of self-defense (or pre-emption against people who are advocating violence), it is morally wrong and repugnant.
So you agree the church has been morally wrong and repugnant since it was birthed? Interesting.
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  #39  
Old 06-12-2004, 07:11 PM
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I think this should be titled irresponsible people that have belief. That covers my views on this.

Quote:
Hitler was a follower of Arianism. This is a perversion of the Christian faith and would be more technically termed a cult, not Christianity.
As a general query wasn't Hitler a follower of the Dallai Lama. I would like to see a clear definition of the term cult. It seems to be used for anything that is not a recognised religion or is not favourable amongst most people.
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  #40  
Old 06-13-2004, 04:07 AM
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Wouldn't christianity be a cult? The definition for cult is "a system of religious worship" Would that be clear enough?
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  #41  
Old 06-13-2004, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Wouldn't christianity be a cult? The definition for cult is "a system of religious worship" Would that be clear enough?
That is what I was thinking. In which case most religions would fit under it.
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  #42  
Old 06-13-2004, 04:36 PM
PFUNK1 PFUNK1 is offline
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christianity and u.s. presidents

http://www.pfunk1.com/atheistic/tv/r...sh-america.htm



atheistic.net
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  #43  
Old 06-13-2004, 05:14 PM
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I've always defined a cult as 'someone else's religion'

mostly because I think that most faiths could be considered cult-like from an outsiders perspective.
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  #44  
Old 06-13-2004, 07:24 PM
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I also think that the term "cult" has a "bad" name because typically the leader's and of course, the follower's or believer's of whatever religion they are trying to profess, can be pushy, arrogant, hypocritical, money hungry, violent, illegal, and I could go on. Kind of sounds like Christianity to me. (and every other religion)
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  #45  
Old 06-13-2004, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
I also think that the term "cult" has a "bad" name because typically the leader's and of course, the follower's or believer's of whatever religion they are trying to profess, can be pushy, arrogant, hypocritical, money hungry, violent, illegal, and I could go on. Kind of sounds like Christianity to me. (and every other religion)
Sounds like mixtures of many different kinds of people some theist some atheist from various religions and beliefs.
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