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  #1  
Old 03-14-2004, 04:17 AM
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The idea of hell...

I asked this in another forum.

Could you (any xtian) be happy in a heavan knowing that you loved ones (mother, father, son, etc...) are burning in hell with the fire and brimestone vision that the xtian bible tells of. I have my opinioin...but would like some other input as well!!
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:18 AM
truthseeker truthseeker is offline
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NOPE.........
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:24 AM
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But if not every person in your family did not make it to heaven and you did, heaven would NOT really be the bliss it is supposed to be.
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:27 AM
truthseeker truthseeker is offline
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I am sure the God who created US ALL will find some way to work out those problems....So, I don't allow myself to be saddened with that now, besides I can not judge..It is not my place to say if another will go to hell..I stand in my own place not anyone elses, nor will anyone stand in mind...
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:55 AM
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Its one of those besides the point issues, yet going from the question to reality is a good journey, I've walked this one a couple times and ended up having the issue disolve.

I know: God is Perfect and Loving Perfectly. God does what is right and love includes loving righteiousness ie: Justice. If someone goes to hell its an act of justice which includes mercy and Love. They seem to go against one another but this is not question is not really any different than observing and questioning any biblical story of justice/ suffering. God is all these things perfectly, infintiely, timelessly.

Easist is that if we are in heaven, its by definition perfect paradise, therefore we have no saddness, everything is perfect, there are no relatives in hell so to say. Hypathetically: if they were once our relatives and ended up in hell, being in heaven with perfect knowledge we would see that obviously they are not our relative. This is a simple childrens answer. Really the whole question is beside the point.

The best answer I have is: There will be no fathers and daughters, no family or relatives in heaven. All will be part of Gods family which is thicker than any blood, its indestructably solid. Let your hearts rest on the Lord.

Hopefully this answeres your question to you.
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2004, 05:14 AM
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However!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Moon
The best answer I have is: There will be no fathers and daughters, no family or relatives in heaven. All will be part of Gods family which is thicker than any blood, its indestructably solid. Let your hearts rest on the Lord.

Hopefully this answeres your question to you.
Sort of--- your god will wipe away your thoughts and memories of having any relitives. Only joy and happiness!!!

Then--- why --- if god is going to do this for the you (IE wipe away your thoughts and memories of having any relitives. Only joy and happiness)) -- why not wipe the memories of sin and unbelife from us poor unbelivers?? No need of hell -- no need of god's children suffering forever in hell???

Now -- that being said -- please don't hollar about the infinate wisdom of your god -- I have a commen sence solution for hell --- I am made in your gods image -- so why did't he/she/it think of this??

This is just one of many problems with the xtian ildeas!! And one of the many reasons I anm no longer a xtian!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Moon
Really the whole question is beside the point.
How do you void a question about hell -- you have tons of refrences to your heavan and hell in the bible -- telling us we will be forever joyfull or damned -- How is the question beside the point --- it is a dead on question to dislodge the ideas xtians have based on the bible!!

You claim your faith has all the answers thru god and his holy scriptures...

It is in fact...A question that no xtian ..(including myself at the time of my 'conversion') can answer -- you will chalk it up to either 'take it by faith', 'the infinate wisdom of your god', or 'who are we to question god'. Take you choice!!

Didn't really mean to ramble this long-- but... HOOAH!!!
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Old 03-14-2004, 03:06 PM
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When we die we become fertilizer. I do not have a problem with this. I can give back to life for so much I have taken.

The idea of hell is another way of instilling fear in people so they will believe. The idea of an afterlife is not an original christian idea. The idea of and part of the history of hell originated in Egypt.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:13 PM
Numberoneson Numberoneson is offline
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As long as you're postulating a god and heaven, just make up
whatever crap makes you feel good about things.

God could just create some artificial souls of your relatives
indistinguishable from those of your actual relatives and have
them around just to keep you happy in Heaven.

All the while, of course, their ACTUAL souls are roasting in hell.

It's a win-win situation all around.

Remember...

With God, ALL Things Are Possible.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:42 PM
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Why doesn't god just un-create the devil. Get rid of the pesky bugger. That way he can protect his investment.
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2004, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truthseeker
I am sure the God who created US ALL will find some way to work out those problems....So, I don't allow myself to be saddened with that now, besides I can not judge..It is not my place to say if another will go to hell..I stand in my own place not anyone elses, nor will anyone stand in mind...
The 'problem'...there is a 'problem' with the idea of heavan and hell??
Please elaborate!! I am excited to heare this!!!

I am not judging...just asking --- Your mother (<---insert your loved one here) did not make it to heaven...how are you going to be happy???
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:28 PM
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ok, last time Lycan....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan T
The 'problem'...there is a 'problem' with the idea of heavan and hell??
Please elaborate!! I am excited to heare this!!!

I am not judging...just asking --- Your mother (<---insert your loved one here) did not make it to heaven...how are you going to be happy???

I have already told you I can not conceive of that...NOPE.. remember...Does that change what I believe...NOPE, and you want to know why,,, because what I TRUST most about God, is His Justness, and the fact that HE is NEVER wrong..I accept what ever will be will be...Even if I go there..It will be JUST..God is the only thing I trust, and the only thing worthwhile...I am sorry you can't understand my point of view, but my purpose is to let you know, God is God, He is a very good decision maker and will do what is RIGHT...So, why should I worry about something I can not do anything about..I can only examine me and do the best I can to trust. The only door is Jesus, the man born of God who died for my sins, shed His innocent blood for us, I will never know it all, nor will I ever be "good" enough to get to heaven, really the way I see it, me and you, we are in the same boat, I just believe and you don't....
Good enough for you? I will not argue so unless you have some point that I can say something else about I probbly wont respond anymore...
Good day
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  #12  
Old 03-15-2004, 12:12 AM
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Talking One down...

Well...one xtian with out an answer (not tring to pick reallly).

I understnd you!! I was once the same as you!! It was unanswered questons tahe made me reilize.. the god I belived in was only IN MY MIND!!!

Any othe xtians like to tackle this question???? Please????
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan T
Well...one xtian with out an answer (not tring to pick reallly).

I understnd you!! I was once the same as you!! It was unanswered questons tahe made me reilize.. the god I belived in was only IN MY MIND!!!

Any othe xtians like to tackle this question???? Please????

Lycan, good thread, just wanted to let you know I'm doing some study, and will make a reply to your questions shortly.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2004, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Follower
Lycan, good thread, just wanted to let you know I'm doing some study, and will make a reply to your questions shortly.

Thanks...

FYI...If you xtians cannot find an answer...its ok...I never found any either...just a thought...

If your faith and the reason for your belife is rooted in the bible...it may be time to reconsider...not your belife, but how your go about beliving. There is an answer within everyone--- it just does not come from a supreme being from the bible.

Thanks for the honesty -- I hope it comes in handy for us all!
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:37 AM
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Oi Mate, I never thought much on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Moon
Its one of those besides the point issues, yet going from the question to reality is a good journey, I've walked this one a couple times and ended up having the issue disolve.
I will discuss all of this hypothetically, since I don't accept Hell or Heaven.

Quote:
I know: God is Perfect and Loving Perfectly. God does what is right and love includes loving righteiousness ie: Justice.
I don't think construction of a Hell, the most horrible punishment of which we can even conceive is compatible with any love, any compassion, or justice. How can the most horrid punishment imaginable be justice for a person's not being able to believe some dogma.

Quote:
If someone goes to hell its an act of justice which includes mercy and Love. They seem to go against one another but this is not question is not really any different than observing and questioning any biblical story of justice/ suffering. God is all these things perfectly, infintiely, timelessly.
This doesn't make sense to me. I know it is widely believed by Christians. But it is a major INJUSTICE that struck me as a child. I could never reconcile that or the millions of babies and billions of animals killed by God in the Flood. It led to my rejection of Christianity. There is a disproportionality between the sin and the maximal punishment. A human being is incapable of an action so horrid as burning another person forever. So how can anything a human does equal that degree of vengeance and cruel punishment?

Quote:
Easist is that if we are in heaven, its by definition perfect paradise, therefore we have no saddness, everything is perfect, there are no relatives in hell so to say.
If in Heaven we are incapable of feeling sadness over the misfortune of others or incapable of pitying those who suffer, then we become less human.

Quote:
Hypathetically: if they were once our relatives and ended up in hell, being in heaven with perfect knowledge we would see that obviously they are not our relative. This is a simple childrens answer. Really the whole question is beside the point.
I would be grieving if I were totally safe but know billions of my fellow humans, perfect strangers were in indescribible agony for ever. If God destroyed the sympathy/empathic part of my psyche, then I would be a lesser being. It would be like the lobotomised patient played by Jack Nicholson in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." I would not want to lose my capacity for sympathy, and pity for others.

Quote:
The best answer I have is: There will be no fathers and daughters, no family or relatives in heaven. All will be part of Gods family which is thicker than any blood, its indestructably solid. Let your hearts rest on the Lord.
Is that Heaven or Hell?

Quote:
Hopefully this answeres your question to you.
It answers my question about how you view the issue. We must agree to disagree, eh Mate?

Amergain
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