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  #1  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:57 PM
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Only study supporting Autism MMR vaccine link retracted

Yeah, this could have gone in the science area, but this is a huge political issue as well, in the US as well as here in Canada and the UK. This is big news. HUGE news. Most people just don't understand how significant. Who knows how many children have died of easily preventable childhood diseases because one greedy Dr. made a bunch of stuff up, and published a study with bad protocol and bad ethics. All other studies done on this have found zero connection between the MMR vaccine and autism, but the average person doesn't understand correlation does not equal causation. Just because their child may have started showing signs of autism around the same time as the vaccine, that is not evidence of a connection. The fact is, the MMR vaccine is given to children around the same time autism symptoms present themselves, regardless of whether the child has received the vaccine or not.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/02...ex.html?hpt=T1

Regardless of this study's bogosity, parents who are already spooked will continue to refrain from vaccines, and children will suffer because of it.
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:26 PM
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As every liberal organic tree-hugger knows, the vaccine programs are a right wing plot to turn kids into conservatives who will not stop global warming or even save the whales.

On the serious side, the only link to autism I am aware of is the age of the father; older dads seem to have more autistic kids. Something about genes from older men are more easily damaged than those from younger men. Looks like nature was right again, kids are for young people.
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2010, 11:18 PM
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Actually Bobbo the opposition to the MMR jab in the UK was a highly white middle class right wing affair. The tabloids didn't like Blair's government at the time so prepetuated several hysterical stories like this.
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2010, 11:26 PM
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Yeah, pretty stupid to make this a purely partisan issue. I obviously feel very strongly about it, and although I'm no tree hugger, I'm pretty well known for my liberal views.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:02 AM
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autism is a psychological state - it means withdrawal
a distant father is a large factor
but there are countless factors that lead to withdrawal
and much of it could be seen as purely an introspective personality
if the process of recieving the shots is traumatic
(it often is)
then this is just one factor - often a trigger factor

I have looked at much of the arguments
and would not be so quick to right off the fringe's views
as having no basis at all

the correlation is still there as many people claim it to be

- but its not strictly causal

thats the crux
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free tibet View Post
Actually Bobbo the opposition to the MMR jab in the UK was a highly white middle class right wing affair. The tabloids didn't like Blair's government at the time so prepetuated several hysterical stories like this.
I was joking about the liberal connection, but not about the old dad correlation. It's real.

I have no statistics, but there also seems to be a rough correlation between autism and moms who want to and/or do homeschooling. I would have to see much more evidence to accept that there is not some direct hereditary link.

I've not seen any numbers, but you could be right about the anti-vaccine thing. In the US one big reason parents don't get children vaccinated is that they don't want to submit to the recordkeeping required by federal law. It is common among Mormons, Libertarians, Freemen-type groups and the homeschool crowd. The organic food bunch is among the usual suspects too. It's easy to convince all these fringe folks that there's a conspiracy afoot. Paranioa is common among people who are isolated physically and/or intellectually.

The main reason these folks don't get the diseases the rest of us are vaccinated against is beacuse they get what is called "herd immunity": the majority of the population gets vaccinated and doesn't spread disease to the few who aren't vaccinated.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:20 PM
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Actually age can affect the brain development of childern. Like for instance, more older parents run into childern not only with autism concerns but also Down Syndrome too.

BUT, that does not mean that every older couple will run into this problem.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
The main reason these folks don't get the diseases the rest of us are vaccinated against is beacuse they get what is called "herd immunity": the majority of the population gets vaccinated and doesn't spread disease to the few who aren't vaccinated.
The possibility that these people live healthy lifestyles,
and thus have powerful immune systems does not enter
your corporate-big-pharma manufactured brain, does it?

You are actually making the kids vulnerable because they
are not building up their immune systems naturally.

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  #9  
Old 02-09-2010, 12:35 AM
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PN, the "natural" immune system can not deal with such diseases. It kills a large majority of children infected. And the non-immunized are not getting the diseases not because their immune systems are "built up" but because they will most likely not come into contact with the disease because most other people are immune. The "natural" health industry is even worse then "big pharma" when it comes to money grubbing, because their products don't actually work.
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  #10  
Old 02-10-2010, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoseidonsNet View Post
The possibility that these people live healthy lifestyles,
and thus have powerful immune systems does not enter
your corporate-big-pharma manufactured brain, does it?

You are actually making the kids vulnerable because they
are not building up their immune systems naturally.

BURN BABYLON BURN
Vaccine: A preparation of a weakened or killed pathogen, such as a bacterium or virus, or of a portion of the pathogen's structure that upon administration stimulates antibody production against the pathogen but is incapable of causing severe infection.

Your comments are typical of someone who knows nothing of vaccines or how they work. The only way your body acquires immunity to disease, other than through your mother's blood, is through exposure to the pathogen. Lifestyle may make you generally stronger and more fit, but it does nothing to provide any immunity.

When pathogens are introduced into the body, the body responds by producing antibodies. Very very few vaccines contain "live" viruses. The "killed" viruses in most vaccines cannot reproduce, and thus cannot make you sick.

If the same pathogen is encountered in "nature" it will be live and potentially fully capable of causing all the bad problems of the associated illness, possibly disfiguration and even death. Do you really want vulnerable young children to have to fight the natural full-strength disease organisms and take their chances?

Forget the fruits-and-nuts utopia; this is one case where science trumps BS.
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2010, 08:38 AM
A.J Rimbaldi A.J Rimbaldi is offline
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mercury Toxic?????/ surely not!

Injecting a mega toxin like mercury straight into a vunerable babies bloodstream is an obscene violation of innocence and trust. It's a measure of how insanely brainwashed everyone is that this is even contemplated!!!!

I have worked with people who have severe disabilities for almost 20 years and the stories that parents have told me are very consistant many noticing problems happening only hours after their childs first vacination. Fever, convulsions, distress even bone breakages. Resulting in sever autisum, bone deformation, epilepsy, severe brain damage, kidney and heart damage and malfunction and on and on and on and on and who knows what the fuck else.

Really this whole vacination con is a disgracefull blight on the human soul and I commend and thank anyone who has the strength of charater and bravery to confront the ruthless forces that are inflicting this on the most tiny and defenceless of us.
Really this is a horrible horrible thing and having seen the horrific physically and emotionally crippling results of vacination on innocent individuals and their families, in the upmost seriousness and sincerity I beg anyone who is contemplating vacination for themselves or their loved ones to vigorously and exhaustively research this.
Particularily the lack of peer review and also the statistcal deceptions used. i.e. polio was already on the decline when vacination was introduced and had no measurable impact at all on the continuing decline with reports of the vacine actually causing polio in some cases.
Out of love and respect for you as a human being I beg you all to reconsider pumping such a horrific cocktail of poisons into your own veins and the veins of your defenceless little ones..
http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

For fuck sake.
The Lancet Retraction Changes Nothing

by David Kirby

Feb 2, 2010

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_446749.html

Dr. Andrew Wakefield is one of the most vilified medical practitioners of recent times, and now he carries the extremely rare dishonor of a retraction in The Lancet, on the paper he coauthored in 1998 suggesting a potential link between autism, bowel disease and Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccine.

I believe that the public lynching and shaming of Dr. Wakefield is unwarranted and overwrought, and that history will ultimately judge who was right and who was wrong about proposing a possible association between vaccination and regressive autistic spectrum disorder (ASD).

Wakefield's critics can condemn, retract, decry and de-license all they want, but that does nothing to stop or alter the march of science, which has come a long way over the past 12 years, and especially in the last year or two. The evidence that autism is increasing at alarming rates, and that some thing (or things) in our environment is wreaking havoc on a vulnerable one-percent of all US children is now so irrefutable that, finally, the federal government is climbing aboard the environmental research bandwagon - way late, but better than never.

This long-overdue paradigm shift will leave many in the scientific community with some proverbial but nonetheless uncomfortable egg on their increasingly irrelevant faces: Those who have protested with shrill certainty that autism is almost purely genetic, and not environmental in nature, and therefore not really increasing at all, will hopefully recede from the debate.

And that begs a nagging question: If those people were dead wrong about environmental factors in autism, could they also be mistaken in their equally heated denials about a possible vaccine-autism link? More bluntly, why should we heed them any longer?

We need to examine a host of environmental factors (air, water, food, medicine, household products and social factors) and how they might interact with vulnerable genes to create the varying collection of symptoms we call "autism." But these triggers almost have to be found in every town of every county of every state in the land - from Maine to Maui.

Are vaccines the only contributing factors to autism? Of course not. Other pharmaceutical products like thalidomide and valporic acid, as well as live mumps virus, have been associated with increased autism risk in prenatal exposures, so we already know that a variety of drugs and bugs can likely make a child autistic.

But, there are now at least six published legal or scientific cases of children regressing into ASD following vaccination - and many more will be revealed in due time.

There was the case of Hannah Poling, in federal vaccine court, in which the government conceded that Hannah's autism was caused by vaccine-induced fever and overstimulation of the immune system that aggravated an asymptomatic and previously undetected dysfunction of her mitochondria. Hannah received nine vaccines in one day, including MMR.

Then there was the Bailey Banks case, in which the court ruled that Petitioners had proven that MMR had directly caused a brain inflammation illness called "acute disseminated encephalomyelitis" (ADEM) which, in turn, had caused PDD-NOS, an autism spectrum disorder, in Bailey.

And last September, a chart review of children with autism and mitochondrial disease, published in the Journal of Child Neurology, looked at 28 children with ASD and mitochondrial disease and found that 17 of them (60.7%) had gone through autistic regression, and 12 of the regressive cases had followed a fever. Among the 12 children who regressed after fever, a third (4) had fever associated with vaccination, just like Hannah Poling.

The authors reported that "recommended vaccination schedules are appropriate in mitochondrial disease," although "fever management appears important for decreasing regression risk."

That conclusion, however, is not supported by some of the world's leading experts on mitochondrial disease, including Dr. Douglas Wallace, a professor of pediatrics and biological chemistry at UC Irvine, and director of its Center for Molecular & Mitochondrial Medicine and Genetics. "We have always advocated spreading the immunizations out as much as possible because every time you vaccinate, you are creating a challenge for the system" in people with mito disorders, Dr. Wallace, who was recently named to the National Academies of Science, testified at a federal vaccine safety meeting.

The possibility that vaccines and mitochondrial disease might be related to autism was also supported in another chart review published in PLoS Online. The authors wrote that mitochondrial autism is not at all rare, and said that, "there might be no difference between the inflammatory or catabolic stress of vaccinations and that of common childhood diseases, which are known precipitants of mitochondrial regression."

In fact, they added, "Large population-based studies will be needed to identify a possible relationship of vaccination with autistic regression in persons with mitochondrial cytopathies."

Another fact that gets little attention in this never-ending debate is that more than 1,300 cases of vaccine injuries have been paid out in vaccine court, in which the court ruled that childhood immunizations caused encephalopathy (brain disease), encephalitis (brain swelling) and/or seizure disorders. Encephalopathy/encephalitis is found in most if not all ASD cases, and seizure disorders in about a third of them.

If we know that vaccines can cause these injuries, is it not reasonable to ask if they can cause similar injuries that lead to autism? (Stay tuned as those 1,300 cases come under closer scrutiny).

Fortunately, the federal government seems to be getting serious about identifying ALL potential environmental factors that could contribute to autism, including a few studies that take in vaccines and the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal. And President Obama's brand-new budget includes increased spending for autism research at NIH, including money to help identify environmental factors that contribute to ASD.

Meanwhile, the National Vaccine Advisory Committee has unanimously endorsed a CDC proposal to study autism as a possible "clinical outcome" of vaccination, and has recommended several more studies pertaining to vaccines and autism, including a feasability study on analyzing vaccinated vs. unvaccinated populations.

And over at the government's leading autism research panel, the Inter-Agency Autism Coordinating Committee (IACC), the Chairman, National Institute of Mental Health Director Dr. Thomas Insel, recently told me that that better diagnosis and reporting could not "explain away this huge increase" in ASD cases.

"There is no question that there has got to be an environmental component here," Insel said.

I asked him if the IACC would ever support direct research into vaccines and autism, now that CDC has raised the estimated ASD rate from 1-in-150 to 1-in-110, in just two years. "I think what you are going to see with this update is that there is a recognition that we need to look at subgroups who might be particularly responsive to environmental factors," he answered.

So what might those factors include? Well, it turns out that the IACC has unanimously recommend research to determine if certain sub-populations are more susceptible to environmental exposures such as "immune challenges related to naturally occurring infections, vaccines or underlying immune problems."

Nobody seriously thinks that the retraction of The Lancet article, and the international flogging of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, will do anything to make this debate go away. And they are right.
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:14 PM
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ddity View Post
PN, the "natural" immune system can not deal with such diseases. It kills a large majority of children infected. And the non-immunized are not getting the diseases not because their immune systems are "built up" but because they will most likely not come into contact with the disease because most other people are immune. The "natural" health industry is even worse then "big pharma" when it comes to money grubbing, because their products don't actually work.
They used to be called quacks back in the day, trying to sell "natural" remedies and medicines.
Yes there is plenty of natural or plant substances that is used in modern medicines, but sorry, the old shaman ways are dead, Posiden.
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:01 PM
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A.J., I also have worked with those that are in the field of mental disabilities. And what I have asked and found out is we do not know what causes autism. But one thing is for sure, you are born with autism, not something you develop later on. Also there is stronger evidence of drugs like the illegal ones we have today are more intermingled into the ASD topic.
So to make a link between two different things with what little numbers you can pull out of your butt is dishonest.
I for one am happy they have these vaccines. They save lives. You are one of those people that use scare tactics when there is no evidence of what you argue.

A.J. I suggest you go and look up:

Quote:
Bonhoeffer J, Heininger U (2007). "Adverse events following immunization: perception and evidence". Curr Opin Infect Dis 20 (3): 23746. doi:10.1097/QCO.0b013e32811ebfb0. PMID 17471032.
And there are plenty of other studies that say you are wrong.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2010, 01:15 AM
A.J Rimbaldi A.J Rimbaldi is offline
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