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  #16  
Old 07-28-2010, 10:28 PM
Ca$hback's Avatar
Ca$hback Ca$hback is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironlord View Post
well compromise is okay when it is voluntarily given, otherwise it is oppression.
Money allows for an individual to oppress many and sometimes requires arbitration.
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we all need to work together in this day an age because we as humans lost many of our trades and skills to survive at a basic level.
Maslows heirarchy of needs. Get some!

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i also see compromise as a weakness in some ways.
How so? Consider that a comprimise has to cater to more than one party and benefit them equally, neither gets exactly what they want but the alternative is a raw deal for one or the other.

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i also see the increase of population not as a movement of loss of freedom, but more of a challenge to the individual.
Many different backgrounds, many different creeds. Cater to them all and the dominant population feels oppressed and responds with political attempts to establish tyranny of the majority. There is a lot of anger, for example, in england where many feel that the muslim voice wants special treatment at the expense of other's percieved social liberties but a society will proportionately reflect change with the people who are a part of it. Who's right and who's wrong? All too often people blind themselves to their double standards. They grow up for 40 years with things "the way they should be" and BAM, everything changes and they get upset because their groove is disturbed. I believe it's understandable but not acceptable to blame something without understanding it. There is a lot of "racial/cultural ratio fear" and there always has been but in the western society the layers of whitewash are peeling away to let the upset out. Get it on the table and deal with it rather than hide it hoping it will go away.

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one should not be discouraged to strive by society saying it is wrong to work for ones life.
Most definitely not.

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i also see no wrong with status or what you call one-upmanship, because it does show character and depending how you do the one-upmanship, it can make a person grow.
I do acknowledge that people aren't equal, they're born to different parents and experience different events. Nevertheless, why all the effort to be fair if "life isn't fair" keeps being used as an excuse? Competition is about outdoing someone, one-upmanship is about using people as stepping stones and status (which is always assumed even if the law backs you up) is the epidome of conceit.
Competition can bring about improvements but there's always a winner and a loser and many feel that's the only way. Almost everything can be cooperative and will benefit far more through collective efforts than one person trying to win at the cost of another. A competative nature doesn't denote character just predation and aggression, conversely predation and aggression don't always denote negativity but it really depends on context. Sometimes these traits are useful if not necessary but I almost never see competition put to good use. Most often it's to revel in the feeling of superiority over the vanquished, so to speak. It's to break another to heal yourself. Moderation, at least, not competative everything, I don't want to play some game I feel is stupid because society leaves me no alternative. I consider that oppression. Forced into the mountains like a hermit because I don't want pop culture rammed down my throat.



Quote:
then again i grew up understanding that help is okay, but it is a last resort type of thing.
I have trouble with the definition of pride but this sounds like it might be in that realm. Aparently there's nothing wrong with pride but I can't seem to shake the stigma of its negative association.

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now we are off topic of the homosexual topic oops.
The topic wasn't homosexuality, it was about angel breeding and nephalim.

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to the topic, you are right, state rights and gay/lesbian rights are on the same coin.
I suspect I am but I've been wrong many times before. Just because something is obvious doesn't make it true.


Now we're off topic.
Much of what I said was for consideration, not an assumtion of your position.
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2010, 12:17 AM
Ironlord Ironlord is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
Money allows for an individual to oppress many and sometimes requires arbitration. Maslows heirarchy of needs. Get some!
but is it truly oppression? or are you talking about employer/employee relationship? or the government/citizen voting system? or church/follower relationship? because saying money allows for oppression to be used is pretty vague and general based. because i can agree that money can do both oppression and freedom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
How so? Consider that a comprimise has to cater to more than one party and benefit them equally, neither gets exactly what they want but the alternative is a raw deal for one or the other.
well a compromise also entails a forced deal for the betterment of you or society. but also compromise can mean a voluntary action between two parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
Many different backgrounds, many different creeds. Cater to them all and the dominant population feels oppressed and responds with political attempts to establish tyranny of the majority. There is a lot of anger, for example, in england where many feel that the muslim voice wants special treatment at the expense of other's percieved social liberties but a society will proportionately reflect change with the people who are a part of it. Who's right and who's wrong? All too often people blind themselves to their double standards. They grow up for 40 years with things "the way they should be" and BAM, everything changes and they get upset because their groove is disturbed. I believe it's understandable but not acceptable to blame something without understanding it. There is a lot of "racial/cultural ratio fear" and there always has been but in the western society the layers of whitewash are peeling away to let the upset out. Get it on the table and deal with it rather than hide it hoping it will go away.
yes, but allowing for a strict generalized based law or social norm also restricts peoples rights. one reason why our leaders several hundred years ago said keep it simple for a FEDERAL government and allow local and state governments more say in what happens. also you can not expect a local community to change overnight to different norms because a minority thinks it is right. like say for instance that muslim community wants to force shira law and the locals say no. now(at least with us law and constitution)our government is set up for amendments for change, but it is meant to be slow change. norms and attitudes do change, but we should never change our individual rights just because someone thinks it is for the betterment of the society(in their mind).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
Most definitely not.
so we agree. but many in my nation and abroad think our lives should be handed to us on a silver platter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
I do acknowledge that people aren't equal, they're born to different parents and experience different events. Nevertheless, why all the effort to be fair if "life isn't fair" keeps being used as an excuse? Competition is about outdoing someone, one-upmanship is about using people as stepping stones and status (which is always assumed even if the law backs you up) is the epidome of conceit.
Competition can bring about improvements but there's always a winner and a loser and many feel that's the only way. Almost everything can be cooperative and will benefit far more through collective efforts than one person trying to win at the cost of another. A competative nature doesn't denote character just predation and aggression, conversely predation and aggression don't always denote negativity but it really depends on context. Sometimes these traits are useful if not necessary but I almost never see competition put to good use. Most often it's to revel in the feeling of superiority over the vanquished, so to speak. It's to break another to heal yourself. Moderation, at least, not competative everything, I don't want to play some game I feel is stupid because society leaves me no alternative. I consider that oppression. Forced into the mountains like a hermit because I don't want pop culture rammed down my throat.
you always have choice in life, no one forces you to be competitive in the real world. but it would be a dull world if we did not have a healthy competition. there is unsung rules in society for a healthy competition between individuals and groups. but i do not want to sound callous, but real life is all about learning the hard lesson, otherwise there is no point to individual thought. i know this sounds idealistic, but it is more realistic then a world of dull, drone like, compromise. i see no wrong in feeling great after you accomplish a goal or in a business. otherwise i would find life boring, in my personal opinion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
I have trouble with the definition of pride but this sounds like it might be in that realm. Aparently there's nothing wrong with pride but I can't seem to shake the stigma of its negative association.
as long as pride does not overtake your whole life. i also can not shake the negative stigma of compromise or even community. then again with my personal experiences in life i have a hard time trusting communities or the idea of the community being there to be a support system, i usually think that is what family is for.

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Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
The topic wasn't homosexuality, it was about angel breeding and nephalim.
i was fooled by the title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hback View Post
I suspect I am but I've been wrong many times before. Just because something is obvious doesn't make it true.
oh i can agree with that.


Now we're off topic.
Much of what I said was for consideration, not an assumtion of your position.[/quote]

i enjoyed the discussion.
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