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View Poll Results: Why do you hate Atheists so much?
Our existence makes you think of inner doubts about God. 2 22.22%
You really believe that our non-belief makes us evil. 4 44.44%
Do you fear our Science threatens your Biblical explanations? 2 22.22%
Atheism encourages independence and freedom (license to sin?) 5 55.56%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 04-10-2010, 11:35 PM
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Amergain Amergain is offline
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Why do Muslims and Christians hate Atheists?

Why do Muslims and Christians hate Atheists?

I ask you who are Christians and Muslims, why you hate us so. We are a minority everywhere. We are a small minority in the US and Third World Countries. We are most hated in those less developed or socially reactive (US).

Why? Most Europeans are nominally Christian. America is de facto Christian Theocracy. We are largely concentrated as Atheists and Agnostics into scientific professions. That makes Fundies hate Science. We are socially positive with a large contingent in Haiti. Medical Doctors are largely Atheistic except for Family Practitioners who must hide their unbelief. A doctor accused or "outed" as an Atheist in a small city or town, he may have to close his practice and move. Christian Churches conduct intensely hate ridden boycotts of Non-Theistic doctors.

The actual number of Atheists in America is therefore likey exaggerated because of the number of Atheists in "the closet."

Do you fear us because we seem more intelligent, more rational, better educated? Does our very existence make you think too much and that may lead to doubt (and lose the delusion of immortality?)

I would like to know why we non-theists are so intensely hated?

Amergin
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2010, 04:39 PM
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If atheists can be good people without theistic religion, much of the justification for theistic religion evaporates. Theists who are honest with themselves must admit that we have a right to expect better from them than from atheists if their religion has any truth to it. 'By their fruit ye shall know them'. For the most part, theistic religion fails to deliver better people than atheistic philosophies and religions. This is not a long-term problem for theistic religions, for the most part they will learn to adjust to our presence in time. Many of them already believe that God inscribes morality even in the heart of an atheist, so they have an answer to our morality, just as 'theistic evolution' lets them keep their religion without rejecting science. In ten or twenty years it will be as out-of-fashion to hate on atheists as it currently is to hate on Jews or Catholics--in other words, it won't be gone completely, but it will be a sign of crassness if you do.
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Old 04-12-2010, 05:01 PM
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Almost all of the atheists are still christians, they just dont believe in God anymore. Their entire moral code is judeo-christian. All thought considering human beings is based on christian morality. The meek shall inherit the earth, turn the other cheeck, live is sacred, finding rational explanation in all things. These are christian attitudes. All of them.

We take their morality, denounce their God and call them stupid. Yet we live by the understanding that all there is is made to be understood by us, rational man trying to understand a rational God's creation. We hate the arrogant, the succesfull, the powerfull unless they claim to have christian morals. We cling to the understanding that every life, especially the lives of those who suffer, are worthy of salvation. We just dont call it salvation anymore.

I live in europe, atheism is not a problem here. At all. Why should it? We are all good christians.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:01 PM
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I totally disagree, if anything it was the Christians and Jews that stole the notions of morality and moral code from earlier societies that were pagan and so forth.

I think they hate those that disagree with their religion because it takes power from them.

To say that we are Christians when we are not, is dishonest.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:08 PM
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As a rule, I don't think Christians are stupid. Although I think they are too quick to take credit for every aspect of modern morality, I appreciate that Christianity was a step forward at the time it appeared, in the area it appeared in, and we owe a significant part of where we are to that history. More than that, many people whom I admire, both historically and currently, have happened to be Christians.

The frustration that many atheists have with Christians in America has to do with a certain element, whom I call Christianistas, who demand favoritism and deference and openly despise people who do not share their religion. Unlike most European countries, the USA has a nominally secular government which has both helped religion to flourish by creating a free market for religion, and which is seen by Christianistas as up for grabs. Arguably theocratic European countries with state endorsed official religions tend to have Christian populations that aren't competing with each other for every worshiper, and so are less prone to extremism.

If the typical Christian I encountered was like the average Church of England or Swedish Lutheran Christian, I would rarely find myself opposed to them, because they wouldn't be trying to rewrite textbooks or exclude religous minorities from the public square: they're not insecure enough to be worried that someone, somewhere, might have a different belief than them.

However, I am more likely than the average European to run into Baptists and Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Most of them are basically good people, but they don't believe they should be content to live and let live. They evangelize. They witness. They go door-to-door. They want creationism taught in science class. A surprising number of them are offended if you say 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas' in December. So it's a little different in the States.
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  #6  
Old 04-14-2010, 02:54 AM
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I believe that Christians understand that a majority of modern Atheists are former Christians who rejected Christianity for rational and moral reasons.

Americans and to a lesser extent Canadians, tend to view Atheists and Agnostics as being in scientific professions, some kind of analytical reason thinking that accounts for their many scientific discoveries. This makes them fearful that maybe those godless heathens really are smarter and more logical and sceptical.

All Christians believe in an unarguably complex and seemingly self-contradicting dogma. The believe things that defy science and imply magic. They see their prayers not working. They see their children die in brutal exorcisms instead of getting modern scientific medicine.

They distrust science because it makes Genesis a fantasy impossible by the laws of science.

Over time, all Christians face doubts about their beliefs. Some are tormented by the doubts. Some fleetingly see the Noah's Flood as terribly unjust and immoral, as well as the Egyptian plagues or Sodom/Gomorrah. Innocents as well as guilty were murdered by a "loving god."

Christians work constantly to stress faith, love of a mean god, and anger at scientists and non-theists. Why are they angry with Atheistic Scientists and Agnostic Scientists?

The reason for Christian hatred of us is that oddly they respect us. They believe that we may be smarter. They know we deal with complex science that they cannot understand. However, they keep coming up with fundamental answers, and their science seems to logically disprove all of the supernatural events in the bible.

WE, Atheists, by our very existence holed up in our labs and computers make Christians question more and more the tribal like stories that only children usually accept.

Doubtful and confused Christians look at us in our white coats pointing to fMRI scans showing the pathways of human speech, our astronomy colleagues showing us pictures of supernovas that erupted 1399 billion years ago and the light of which is now just reaching us. Atheists demonstrate the Hadron accelerator looking for the primary particle existence, which has been calculated mathematically. Unfortunately, “mathematics” is a scare word for Christian fundamentalists. It may be hard to understand but it makes the childish faerie tales of Genesis and the Resurrection myth seem untenable.


All anger points at us nosy atheists uncovering secrets not meant to be found. I wish Christians could learn to appreciate those of us who search for basic truth and solve the horror of genetic and malignant disorders of us and out children. It not it worth looking instead of relying on writings of desert savages. Tribal magic fails. Modern medicine is not perfect but it daily produces what some would consider miraculous.

Amergin
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  #7  
Old 04-15-2010, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amergain View Post
Why do Muslims and Christians hate Atheists?
I would like to know why we non-theists are so intensely hated?
Amergin

Neutral says:

There is, as we speak, a trial taking place in Cambodia of the remaining leaders of the atheist Pol Pot regime that abolished religion and killed two million Cambodians, including many Buddhist monks. The regime was Maoist in origin and, like the early years of the Communist Regimes in China and Russia, murdered and executed many religious people (even those with no political opinion) because they were religious. Richard Dawkins tries to excuse such behaviour on the grounds that they did not behave in such a ruthless, inhuman, manner because they were atheists. This is, of course, an indefensible position. Lenin and Stalin (Lenin in particular) adopted a public policy of atheism. They killed people of religious persuasion because of their own atheist beliefs. Albania followed the same route when it proclaimed itself an atheist state. In all these atheist states it wasn't religion which spoiled everything it was an atheist inspired campaign of murder by the State.

Now it can be argued that the atheist State simply used the same weapons that had been used by its religious predecessors and there's a strong case to support that opinion. However, the one common factor to pre-atheist and post-atheist states (even China has relented on its persecution of religion qua religion - although it still executes more people than any other State in the world - ) is humanity. It is not necessarily the religious or atheist convictions per se which lead to murder but the depraved nature of human beings in power. As Stalin's executioner Yagoda, executed by Stalin, when "asked by his interrogator if he believed in God, Yagoda replied, "From Stalin I deserved nothing but gratitude for my faithful service; from God I deserved the most severe punishment for having violated his commandments thousands of times. Now look where I am and judge for yourself: is there a God, or not...." It's a valid question and not one answered by the kind of arguments put forwarded by Richard Dawkins and his fellow atheists.

Of course the States referred to above are not the only atheist states. North Korea is also officially atheist. According to a BBC report, "Political expression is strictly forbidden and any dissent harshly punished. A detailed report based on eyewitness accounts compiled by the US Committee for Human Rights in North Korea suggests that about 200,000 political prisoners are incarcerated in gulags and labour camps. In many cases, up to three generations of the same family are being detained. Inmates face a regime of hard labour and beatings, and are kept alive on starvation rations."

Officially 64% of the population are irreligious but this is hardly surprising as the only churches which exist are those approved by the atheist state while "free religious activities no longer exist in the DPRK as the government sponsors religious groups only to create an illusion of religious freedom". According to reports, "Christians, who were said to often face persecution by the authorities, and Buddhists were given limited funding by the government to promote the religion, given that Buddhism played an integral role in traditional Korean culture" while Christians in North Korea are said to be amongst the most persecuted religious groups in the world. Even Amnesty International has expressed concerns about the extent of religious persecution in North Korea.

Welcome to the world of atheist reality as advocated by Richard Dawkins and his fellow atheists - and please don't mention The Vendee or The Goddess of Reason when in France.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/...x3D42EQJDTTSDA

that is why
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:47 PM
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It's tit for tat, Puff. Simply universal karma evening things out. The religions had their centuries of violence, imprisoning and killing a completely unfathomable number of free thinkers that sought knowledge beyond the walls of the Bible, or Quoran. Now that it's becoming a more widely accepted idea that God doesn't exist, and atheist ideas are getting out there, more people are adopting them, and some of those people are sure to be crazy as fuck. This is just something we as atheists will have to deal with, and try to continue promoting education, instead of intolerance.
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Old 04-15-2010, 04:44 PM
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What I hate about theists is their practice of human sacrifice. They find victims who can't defend themselves, drug them up, tie them down and cut out their beating hearts with obsidian knives. Sometimes they burn their victims to death. Sometimes they sacrifice babies. Theists also engage in ritual cannabilism, both literally and symbolically. Theists stone their daughters to death. Theists perform foul magical rituals and try to curse their enemies. There doesn't seem to be any hideous crime that theists won't commit.

This is the world of theist reality as advocated by the Pope and his fellow theists. And please don't mention the complicity of priests in genocide when in Rwanda.

That is why.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:41 AM
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Mister Agenda, your posts are gems of clear thinking and reason. They contrast sharply to the disorganised thought pattern of many of the theists here.

Prison inmate statistics, Clerical paedophile statistics, compared to the extremely low incidence of sex crimes, abuse, and violence among Atheists, Agnostics, and Apatheists compared to believers.

Why have the most bloody wars in European History been wars of one religious people against another religious people typified by hate, torture, genocide, oppression, fighting against freedom.

What has made human conditions in this world better? What has worked to eliminate foetal and genetic diseases? What group has worked consistently against angry opposition in "rights movements?"

I do not know of a single Atheist that fought to defend slavery.

I know an organised Christian Fundamentalist Religion that was formed to support Slavery and the Confederacy. They are the Southern Baptists whose descendants carried on the fight to oppress black people with Jim Crow Laws and legal segregation of schools, the US Armed Forces. Atheist organisations and know known Atheists have opposed women's reproductive rights. Atheists fought to block forced prayer in the public schools. Atheists in large numbers fought for Black voting rights, freedom to intermarry with whites (against Christian opposition.)

I think the reason that Christianity is fading in Europe is that we have seen the worst of it in 1600 years. Hitler further discredited Christianity by supporting it. Europeans have culturally advanced and become better educated so as to recognise Christianity not only as a false religion with a human idol, but as a truly evil force in the world (Christian and Muslim.)

However, comparing bad rulers as representatives of their religions is not fair. There are Stalins, Maos, and Pol Pots on one side, with Hitler, Pavelic, Karejzik, Milosovic, Osama Bin Ladin, Mullah Omar, Oliver Cromwell, Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria (in India), Martin Luther, Jean Cauvin, back to Justinian I, Theodosius I, Theodosius II, Charlemagne, Baybars, Selim the Conqueror, Suleiman the Magnificent.

Bad Europeans used Christianity to frighten, an excuse to kill, abduct and brain wash children, outlaw the language and religion of Native Americans in what should be called the American Holocaust.

Just think of how peaceful the world would be if all Christians and Muslims got raptured up by a real cosmic god and transported to the Planet Mercury. I'll take the Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, Jains, Sikhs, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Apatheists, and Ignostics. Children will flock to education in the sciences instead of turning their brains to mush with religious rubbish.

Amergin
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2010, 02:23 AM
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That was rather outstanding. Actually, quite outstanding!
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:28 AM
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Mister Agenda, your posts are gems of clear thinking and reason. Amergin
Pure propaganda and no facts.

Lets present the number of the victims who were killed and destroyed by Christians versus who were killed and destroyed by atheists in XX century.

Christians means organised by Christian church or Christian state.
The same about atheists.


The numbers will show us the truth.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:41 PM
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Here are the numbers, Puffader: 100% of the atrocities committed by atheists in the twentieth century were performed under communist dictatorships. Percent of atrocities committed by atheists who were not communists: 0%. Percent of atrocities committed by atheists prior to the 20th century: 0%

The opposite of atheist is not Christian, it is theist. If you are lumping us all together with the communist atheists, it is equally fair to lump all theists together with the Inquisition, Crusaders, suicide-bombers, Aztec priests, devil worshipers, and so forth.

Of course it is not fair to do so...it is OBVIOUSLY unfair to do so. Yet you keep doing it. Puffader, you don't seem to be stupid, I think you get that it doesn't make sense to lump a humanist or buddhist atheist with the communist atheists when tallying up body counts any more than it makes sense to do the same with different theistic religions. Yet you continue to do it.

Jains literally wouldn't hurt a fly. Can you imagine how stupid it would sound for me to have a conversation with a Jain in which I held her responsible for the holocaust? If so, you should be able to understand how you sound to me when you blame me for what the communists did when I have exactly one (1) thing in common with them, the same opinion regarding whether God really exists. I don't have anything else in common with them. I am a libertarian, which is about as far as you can get from communism politically and economically. I believe in freedom of religion as well as from religion. I despise pretty much everything communism stands for, including official state atheism (I think governments should be strictly neutral regarding religion, within the constraints of liberty and peace).

The crimes of communist regimes apply to me exactly as much as the child sacrifice practices of Baal worshipers apply to you. I won't continue to repeat myself on this matter, Puffader, if you persist in the lie or delusion (those being the only two possibilities) that those friendly, sweet communist dictators would have been ever so nice if Marx had told them to be Christians instead of atheists, I will have to conclude--very reluctantly--that conversation with you is pointless.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:51 PM
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Pure propaganda and no facts.
i merely applied your premise that it makes sense to hold atheism responsible for communism to theism? It is not my fault that when I reverse your reasoning it becomes obvious that you are only spouting propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puffader View Post
Lets present the number of the victims who were killed and destroyed by Christians versus who were killed and destroyed by atheists in XX century.

Christians means organised by Christian church or Christian state.
The same about atheists.
You don't get to decide to only compare Christians and atheists. To make sense it has to be theists versus atheists. To be fair, it would be Christians versus Humanists or Christians versus atheistic Buddhists or somesuch. Of course, your posting history indicates that making sense and being fair aren't high on your list of priorities.

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The numbers will show us the truth.
Number of apples versus number of oranges only shows lies.
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:04 PM
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Mister Agenda, your posts are gems of clear thinking and reason. Amergin
Thank you, Amergin, I am often impressed by your posts, as well.

I think there are a lot of factors in play with the good outcomes atheists get that are in danger of being diminished if atheism merely becomes the default. Right now we look good, because in Western society it usually takes a thoughtful person to come to the conclusion that God probably does not really exist except as a concept. The leisure and education and mental health to be thoughtful all combine (in my opinion) to produce the artifact of Western atheists having low crime rates.

In other words, it is thoughtfulness and critical thinking which make both atheism and pro-social behavior more likely. As communism and the Raellians prove, agnostic atheism is not directly connected to peacefulness and rationality.

I think it is important to promote rationality and critical thinking. These will have the results we want even if not everyone reaches the same conclusion we do concerning the likelihood of God's existence. To paraphrase someone, no country ever committed genocide because it's people were too reasonble.
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