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  #166  
Old 02-10-2009, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Burkhill View Post
They make it simple to suit their personal preferences - it's self defence of personal practices, they don't want to see what your saying because it is a difficult thing to examine where you come from and why you come from there - an unexamined life....
Yeah, you're right on the mark.

Reflection can be difficult with a muddied mirror
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  #167  
Old 02-10-2009, 01:45 AM
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hardly jdp - american agriculture is as efficient as any in the world.
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  #168  
Old 02-10-2009, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by wiiiire View Post
Yeah, my arguments are clearly just like theirs.

And yours, apparently, as the fallacies are just overwhelming.

There are a huge number of medical, non vegetarian society sponsored studies out there which all point to vegetarian diets being healthier and more economically valid. Google will take you to them. Sorry.

Eating meat has been directly linked to heart disease, colon cancer, prostate cancer and many other conditions. It is estimated that meat consumption in the US causes tens of billions of dollars of medical costs.

It takes more energy to produce meat than it provides the consumer.

Open your mind... Google stuff... Try not to assume the person who disagrees with you does so because of some "moral high ground" just because they think they're probably right. It's not a very progressive way of discussing anything.
oh but you said that the biblelife.org is bs. its remarkably (with humor too lol) the only site (based on my lazy search)that sources anti-vegetarian diet in which it had link to "research proofs".
but how do you know which research is which? you actually said that it had truths mixed in it. how do you know there was a lie? have you actually conducted a similar research? I read here in the forums that we had a member who conducted his own research about his diet and it involves ingesting and eating rotten meat, he says it is actually healthy. for all we know, and i think you can also see that, these vegetarian sites are just another business propaganda fueled by money marketed to be the "new and hip" lifestyle.
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  #169  
Old 02-10-2009, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Burkhill View Post
They make it simple to suit their personal preferences - it's self defence of personal practices, they don't want to see what your saying because it is a difficult thing to examine where you come from and why you come from there - an unexamined life....
actually, all you need is common sense to see that there is no such thing as the "perfect diet that will save the world from hunger and suffering".
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  #170  
Old 02-10-2009, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Amaris View Post
it makes sense to me that it's more efficient to eat what grows than to eat that which eats what grows. lots of people are vegetarian purely for this reason.
if we were using ALL the land we have for food to grow vegetables we would get more, right? there are a lot of fields that are ONLY used for cattle. i know that's true.

a lot of livestock is fed grain.
again i say: twenty five thousand men, women and children die of starvation everyday.
nah, in my country that isn't possible. the upper portion of our country is visited by storms almost every 3 months. and they get luckier getting 2 typhoons in one month. the middle part is practically unproductive since they don't have those "enough lands", its all water and a bunch of typhoons too. and the lower part (where I live) doesn't have typhoons, but we're in a middle of a terrorist war (already around 200 years or more and still continuing) where farmers are have more suffering than those animals.

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i agree with you. you can't really believe the findings of research are true unless you've done it yourself.
yep, I have hyper metabolism. no matter how much I eat I won't get fat and keeping a vegan diet makes me look anorexic. tried eating vegetables only too, I got thinner in only a matter of days. whew no way, I looked like a skeleton.
the taste of meat and the so called "protein lie" is the only one keeping me looking fit. although I eat a lot of vegetables ( i like it fresh too) but they are mixed with meat. the taste motivates me to eat more, which I needed.
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  #171  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:02 AM
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for all we know, and i think you can also see that, these vegetarian sites are just another business propaganda fueled by money marketed to be the "new and hip" lifestyle.
Yeah, clinical studies that have established links with meat eating and those health problems aren't business propaganda. There are plenty of them.

You effectively holding up your hands and claiming all evidence is useless is as ridiculous as claiming all of it is correct.

The weight of it clearly indicates that eating meat is a harder way of being healthy than not doing so. That is not to say there aren't any healthy meat eaters, but there are proportionally far fewer vegetarians suffering from these problems because you have to be more careful to avoid them as a meat eater.

Meat is just a pretty shitty source of energy really and it shows. If the alternatives are available to you (and it could be as simple as tofu and a varied vegetable, nut and seed based diet), your body is likely to respond very favorably to them

Speaking from my own, personal experience... my energy levels increased massively when I gave up meat and considerably more when I gave up dairy + eggs.

Sure, there could have been other factors involved, but it seemed pretty deterministic to me Got tired less, looked healthier, smelt better, started shitting better... pretty cool.

Meat now smells really fucking odd too. No one ever talks about that. It's not a good smell... it's like rotting flesh.
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  #172  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wiiiire View Post
Yeah, clinical studies that have established links with meat eating and those health problems aren't business propaganda. There are plenty of them.

You effectively holding up your hands and claiming all evidence is useless is as ridiculous as claiming all of it is correct.

The weight of it clearly indicates that eating meat is a harder way of being healthy than not doing so. That is not to say there aren't any healthy meat eaters, but there are proportionally far fewer vegetarians suffering from these problems because you have to be more careful to avoid them as a meat eater.

Meat is just a pretty shitty source of energy really and it shows. If the alternatives are available to you (and it could be as simple as tofu and a varied vegetable, nut and seed based diet), your body is likely to respond very favorably to them

Speaking from my own, personal experience... my energy levels increased massively when I gave up meat and considerably more when I gave up dairy + eggs.

Sure, there could have been other factors involved, but it seemed pretty deterministic to me Got tired less, looked healthier, smelt better, started shitting better... pretty cool.

Meat now smells really fucking odd too. No one ever talks about that. It's not a good smell... it's like rotting flesh.
then direct me/us to those links or research. I hope those aren't related or linked to a vegan/vegetarian site. personal experience doesn't count much, including mine.
being a vegetarian, you eat a lot of carbs which explains you feel a lot of energy. you also shit better because vegetables contains fiber (correct me if I'm wrong) which promotes good bowel movement. I have those too, but I eat both. all it takes is discipline and that's what really matters.
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  #173  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:15 AM
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tried eating vegetables only too, I got thinner in only a matter of days. whew no way, I looked like a skeleton.
Then you did it wrong. You probably weren't eating enough of some kinds of foods. You obviously need to make sure you get enough protein and fats.

Really easy though, Tofu, beans (of all kinds), nuts, wheat protein...

Today I had :-

Breakfast :- shallow (grapeseed oil) fried mushrooms with beans on toast
Lunch :- 2 x humous, spinach and mango chutney sandwiches
Dinner :- wheat noodles shallow fried with mushrooms, red onion, butter beans, spinach, sugar snap peas; 2, oven cooked, large vegetable spring rolls and a couple of slices of bread + non dairy margarine (basically vegetable fat) followed by a caramal soya yoghurt/desert thing

I usually have muesli for breakfast which has a variety of nuts, dried fruits etc. Yesterday I ate vegetable protein burgers with a plate of spinach pasta and a sauce i'd made for dinner.. The day before that I was out for dinner at a restaruant and had deep fried tofu with rice and loads of other vegetables.

It's really easy, but you can't just eat plates of vegetables, you have to have a pretty balanced diet.
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  #174  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:17 AM
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Oh yeah, I drank a load of freshly squeezed fruit juice too, that was nice.
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  #175  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:26 AM
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then direct me/us to those links or research. I hope those aren't related or linked to a vegan/vegetarian site
Oh fine. It took me a couple of minutes to find these :

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/516S
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/3/533S
http://eatright.org/ada/files/veg.pdf
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...d.0040325&ct=1

You haven't bothered looking have you? You're just trying to win an argument. It's really annoying.

Please don't ask me to quote from them. I've played search engine for you.

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personal experience doesn't count much, including mine
I disagree.

Quote:
being a vegetarian, you eat a lot of carbs which explains you feel a lot of energy. you also shit better because vegetables contains fiber (correct me if I'm wrong) which promotes good bowel movement. I have those too, but I eat both. all it takes is discipline and that's what really matters.
I'm speaking from personal experience. My diet was pretty healthy just before I turned vegetarian and obviously healthier before I went vegan. I noticed the difference each time.

If you're just going to rule out personal experience as well as all studies, I really don't know why you're even bothering to think about anything.
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  #176  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wiiiire View Post
Then you did it wrong. You probably weren't eating enough of some kinds of foods. You obviously need to make sure you get enough protein and fats.

Really easy though, Tofu, beans (of all kinds), nuts, wheat protein...

Today I had :-

Breakfast :- shallow (grapeseed oil) fried mushrooms with beans on toast
Lunch :- 2 x humous, spinach and mango chutney sandwiches
Dinner :- wheat noodles shallow fried with mushrooms, red onion, butter beans, spinach, sugar snap peas; 2, oven cooked, large vegetable spring rolls and a couple of slices of bread + non dairy margarine (basically vegetable fat) followed by a caramal soya yoghurt/desert thing

I usually have muesli for breakfast which has a variety of nuts, dried fruits etc. Yesterday I ate vegetable protein burgers with a plate of spinach pasta and a sauce i'd made for dinner.. The day before that I was out for dinner at a restaruant and had deep fried tofu with rice and loads of other vegetables.

It's really easy, but you can't just eat plates of vegetables, you have to have a pretty balanced diet.
kek fuck tofu. its the worst food I've ever tasted, so bland and not definitely not motivating me to eat more. mongo seeds have better taste and has a lot of protein too, and it tastes like meat. but I wouldn't want to eat that repeatedly, no way. as this conversation goes, taste really matters. and its enough reason to eat both.
we have a small fruit farm having bananas (well i don't like bananas much) and lots of other fruits. and I drink and eat lots of them too, I prefer fruit shake. fruit salad is really good too. but so is steak and barbeque and roasted pork. hmm I enjoy both worlds.
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  #177  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wiiiire View Post
nah, those links have vegan/vegetarian written all over it. i also searched those a few days ago actually.

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Originally Posted by wiiiire View Post
You're just trying to win an argument. It's really annoying.
nope, I'm just using my common sense for arguing. well this is what it is about isn't it?

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Originally Posted by wiiiire View Post
I disagree.


I'm speaking from personal experience. My diet was pretty healthy just before I turned vegetarian and obviously healthier before I went vegan. I noticed the difference each time.

If you're just going to rule out personal experience as well as all studies, I really don't know why you're even bothering to think about anything.
my experience negates (against) yours and vice versa. that's why its not really a good basis.
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  #178  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:38 AM
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kek fuck tofu. its the worst food I've ever tasted, so bland and not definitely not motivating me to eat more.
It absorbs other flavours There's a definite skill to cooking it well.

I tend to shallow fry it very slowly until it's going brown (adding some spices towards the end - like chili and ginger) and then throw it into a pan where other vegetables are already cooking. Tastes delicious.

Deep frying works well.

And marinading is the best route to serious tofu flavour. My brother used to marinade it and then coat with flour and shallow fry... he made some damn good tofu like that!
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  #179  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:42 AM
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nah, those links have vegan/vegetarian written all over it. i also searched those a few days ago actually.
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, The American Dietetic Association, The Intramural Research Program of the National Institutes of Health and The National Cancer Institute ?

*raises eyebrow*
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  #180  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by A.J Rimbaldi
I've been doing it for at least ten years sympty dimpty haven't fallen off the twig yet! All the kings horses and all the kings men! I don't need them!
I assume you are refering to bacterial infection. Humanity has eaten rotten raw meat for thousands of years tens of thousands! hundreds we are the only species that heats and sterilzes our food. In fact thats pretty much all the eskimos used to eat and they survied helathy and strong tearing bones apart with their teeeth till they were 80 -90 100 years old in conditions that would kill us in two days if we lived on processed cooked crap! Louie Pastuer said that he had got it wrong when he was on his death bed and deferred to his college Antione Beuacamps more holistic veiw on disease.
Seeing it as a process that needs to be supported by healthy vital food and not as an enemy to be battled with drugs antibiotics ect....
His theory was that bacteria and viruses were there to help the body heal and clean and that suppressing the sypmtoms of disease through the use drugs ect just postponed the enivitable cleaning process and made it worse. Causing cataclysmic problems in the body when it cannot be postponed any longer leading to degeneration and death mostly in the form of cancer a build up of toxic wastes that the body isolates in one place in a desparate attempt to remain operational! the best way to deal with disease is to let it runs its course and to feed it with food that is full of vitality and with the least amount of poison in it sothe process can complete itself as efficiently and harmlessly as possible. if you don't you get a shit load of problems! Raw (organic) meat and fat are the most nutrient dense and available food we have. So in this time of high pollution and psychotic medical treatment raw meat and fat are the best things to put into your body to help it's continual challenge of removing nasties(dead cells and toxins not bacteria bacteria are goodies!!!!!!!!! there is more bacterial dna in our bodies than human!!!!!! we need them love your bacteria really they are trying to help!!!!!) from the body (unless of course your ZIncovich who might benifit from some hot live meat inserted into the various pleasure giving orifices as well! Skanky little ho!). Eskimos used to bury meat in summer until it was stinky assss nose meltingly rotten and then take it as a tonic to help,mthem survive the winter. I've done it many times it really kicks assssss gives a real high after a while feel really alive!!!!! my god! I am aliveeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.karlloren.com/Diabetes/p78.htm
http://drbass.com/aajonus.html
well, he claims he had his own research.
its from another thread: http://www.frostcloud.com/forum/show...t=11717&page=5
what do you think about those links. are they biased? in terms of proving their point, yes. but there isn't any anti-vegan word or notion/idea (at least from what I've read) found in those links of his. it also promotes eating both plants and animals but only focuses more on the raw, so its really not that biased.
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