Favorite Language/writing

[madesta]

What's your favorite language/writing? I've seen some interesting things out there. I think French sounds cool, British accents sound hot, and either Indian or Japanese writing looks cool. What's your fav?

[0ddity]

European. I love the sound of a native German speaker. As for writing, African. No written text will ever again equal the Egyptians. My opinions are subject to change once we hear and see alien language.

[madesta]

I should have put "Binary" for all the Greeks.

[kyman]

I like Latin and French.

I used to know morris code too.

Madesta, sup homie?

[0ddity]

01111001001100000010000001001001001000000110000101 10110100100000011101000110010101101000001000000110 11000011001100110011011101000010000001101000011000 0101111000001100000111001000100001

[madesta]

wuzzup Kyman? hey, I've been wondering. Can I ban myself? Is it possible? I'm afraid to find out (but I'm tempted). Damn philosopher's infinite possibilities mentality!!!!!

[Dromiceius]

Spoken: Tolkien's Quenya, which is designed to be aesthetically pleasing.

I like the Japanese syllabary. Unlike that of English, it follows rules and actually makes sense.... Plus 20,000 kanji which are, in fact, evil.

[Dragon]

For writing, some of the ancient Mediterranean languages are cool to read, like Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Eygptian...

Spoken i would have to say that many of the Native American tribal tongues are very soothing and beautiful to listen too.

The other language i love to listen to and want to be able to read, write and speak is Gaelic, Latin and the many Ojbawa languages.

[dimensionQ]

Russian. Reminds me a little of German, but uses Cyrillic and sounds even meaner.

[dimensionQ]

Not to mention Dostoevsky and Tolstoy were Russian. You also have never lived until someone has read pieces of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas in Russian. Gives a whole new meaning to drug experiences.

[IamJoseph]

MYSTERY OF THE HEBREW


The Hebrew language origins mystifies. Research does not give any satisfaction of the process of its emergence - raising more questions than answers. Is Hebrew the first spoken language's closest derivitive?


1. It appeared suddenly - without a development stage track record.

2. It appeared in an advanced state - escaping the normal evolutionary process of languages. Even 2000 years later, the Latin was less advanced, eg: it lacked many phonational sounds ('V'), and requiring four digits to express 17 (X, V, 1, 1), which the Hebrew dispenses with one single digital stroke - it introduced Grammar and Medicine, its vowels and numbers being alphabet contained.

3. It manages copious arithmatics in the millions, with the ease of language expressionism comporable of today's most advanced English (sp: the consensus of millions of Hebrews in the desert); the dispensing of controversial subjects such as incest, homosexuality and bestiality are likewise dealt with in concise but comprehensive strokes of a few words while needing no expansion; its prose quoted by the greatest writers in history without any loss of relevance today.

4. It was introduced via the smallest, and certainly not the earliest or mightiest, nation.

5. It was a non-popular, non-pervasive and unknown language to the great empire surrounds and their civilizations: the ancient Middle-east knew 70 languages but knew not Hebrew. Yet it evolved as the most quoted, translated, printed and believed document in recorded history.

6. Archaeological summations of its prototypes (Sumerian, Phoenician, canaanite) fail to qualify the criteria to any satisfactory levels: why the greatest volume of Hebrew but an absolute vacancy of these assumed earlier writings? Wherefrom the striking similarity between the older Hebrew and the Indian and Japanese scripts so afar off, since 1000s of years? Hebrew is similar to, and influenced most written languages today. Literally, 1000s of ancient words can be traced to the Hebrew - including HELLO?!

7. It introduced a new vocabulary and prose, with no record of past usage, of numerous words and concepts, deemed controversial for 1000s of years.


8. It introduced history and historical writings: akin to today's Telephone Directory, the first Hebrew book (The Torah) is brimming with specificity of names, places, dates, distances, cultures, diets, rivers, mountains which remain a yardstick. But for this Hebrew - the world would have no other source for the life and history of Abraham, nor chunks of ancient nations and their histories not recorded elsewhere.

9. It introduced a Document with a summary of laws and statutes, many new, to which none have been able to add to or subtract from: no other religion, ideology or figurehead gave the world a single law not already contained in this Document. Try to name a single new law the world accepts from outside the Torah? It remains comprehensive as a Law book without equal; the world turns by the Torah's 613 Commandments/Laws despite its ancient station in history.

10. It prevailed as no other, after disappearing and returning as no other. Apart from being the oldest alphabetical books in existence (The Dead Sea Scrolls), the Hebrew remained dead/dormant for 2000 years, and then returned as a living language/writing again. No other language ever did so after a period of 150 years of dormancy.


...The closest to expound any acceptable answers to the mystery of Hebrew, after much research, appears from a most unlikely, perhaps unacceptable source. In a book called THE MIDRASH, appears an entry relating to this sudden advent of the world's oldest surviving alphabetical written book. As a preface, the Hebrew is recorded as being a spoken language in ancient Egypt by the Hebrews, but not as a written one: there is no written Hebrew predating the Torah.

When THE TEN COMMANDMENTS were handed down to the Israelites via Moses (1350 BCE), its second Commandment prohibited the use of Graven Images (for worship). This would present a great contradiction: all writings of this region were in the Cuneiform ('picture writings'), made of animal/beast faces inter-polated with human torsos - or alternatively Human heads with animal limbs. This would clearly not be suitable for the Torah, which contained such a Commandment expressly forbidding Images.

The Midrash tells that Moses was thereupon given the means of transforming 'IMAGE' writings to 'ABSTRACT' writings - and the Alphabet was born. This is the only explaination without numerous self-contradictions.


The above noted ten attributes of the Hebrew, which is unique unto itself and not shared by any other presumed prototypes, may have in fact been the precursor - not the derivative - of those writings, and also the closest derivitive from one single language which diffused to 70 Block languages at Babel. That the Israelites did not borrow Hebrew from the surrounds, specially not from Canaan - which did not possess the Hebrew - is established in the OT texts itself: that the Hebrews returned to Canaan 3250 years ago, equipped with the five Hebrew books already in their possession - thus they could not have received Hebrew from the Canaanites.

In Judaic belief, Hebrew is referred to as Holy Tongue - that the Holy One spoke in this language at Eden and at Sinai. And that at Sinai there was no echo after the voice…

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

MYSTERY OF THE HEBREW

Not really.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

The Hebrew language origins mystifies. Research does not give any satisfaction of the process of its emergence - raising more questions than answers. Is Hebrew the first spoken language's closest derivitive?

They actually have a good idea where it came from. Africa.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

1. It appeared suddenly - without a development stage track record.

Not true at all. It wasnt until later it moved out of the Arabian Penn. and N. Africa.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

2. It appeared in an advanced state - escaping the normal evolutionary process of languages. Even 2000 years later, the Latin was less advanced, eg: it lacked many phonational sounds ('V'), and requiring four digits to express 17 (X, V, 1, 1), which the Hebrew dispenses with one single digital stroke - it introduced Grammar and Medicine, its vowels and numbers being alphabet contained.

This is a load of crap. It developed like any other language. It developed out of Semetic language family. It is related to other semetic languages out of the northern family types like Aramaic or Ugaritic. Though there is some proof that Hebrew came from further east in Chaldees. And not from Palestine region. But liek anyother language it developed and changed over time. What Joe doesnt want you to know is that even Hebrew changed drastically over time. Some even say that that wasnt the original language, some think it could of been Akkadian. And some researchers claim that the "original" hebrews might not of at all spoke what we now consider Hebrew.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

3. It manages copious arithmatics in the millions, with the ease of language expressionism comporable of today's most advanced English (sp: the consensus of millions of Hebrews in the desert); the dispensing of controversial subjects such as incest, homosexuality and bestiality are likewise dealt with in concise but comprehensive strokes of a few words while needing no expansion; its prose quoted by the greatest writers in history without any loss of relevance today.

Um, no. Its no different then any other language Joe. Do you have proof other then saying it does have "special" qualities? Like examples, other then stating homosexuality or beastiality?

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

4. It was introduced via the smallest, and certainly not the earliest or mightiest, nation.

Well it wasnt really formed until the originals come to the region of Palestine, but even then it took them many many generations to form the language.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

5. It was a non-popular, non-pervasive and unknown language to the great empire surrounds and their civilizations: the ancient Middle-east knew 70 languages but knew not Hebrew. Yet it evolved as the most quoted, translated, printed and believed document in recorded history.

Not true. In fact it is known to be developed by NON-Hebrews too of the Palestine region Joe some claim. Sorry Joe your favorite language is not any more special then other languages. And yes the middle east did know of Hebrew because it was developed there because it is a Semetic language.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

6. Archaeological summations of its prototypes (Sumerian, Phoenician, canaanite) fail to qualify the criteria to any satisfactory levels: why the greatest volume of Hebrew but an absolute vacancy of these assumed earlier writings? Wherefrom the striking similarity between the older Hebrew and the Indian and Japanese scripts so afar off, since 1000s of years? Hebrew is similar to, and influenced most written languages today. Literally, 1000s of ancient words can be traced to the Hebrew - including HELLO?!

Can you present the logical proof Joe? I have asked you this countless times and you keep avoiding it. In fact those other languages you mention WERE part of the family of Semetic langauges which includes Hebrew. And what criteria Joe, your personal criteria?

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

7. It introduced a new vocabulary and prose, with no record of past usage, of numerous words and concepts, deemed controversial for 1000s of years.

Any language can introduce new vocabulary of the past and now. And you can prove this how? And i mean actual proof Joe and not jsut some random and general statement.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

8. It introduced history and historical writings: akin to today's Telephone Directory, the first Hebrew book (The Torah) is brimming with specificity of names, places, dates, distances, cultures, diets, rivers, mountains which remain a yardstick. But for this Hebrew - the world would have no other source for the life and history of Abraham, nor chunks of ancient nations and their histories not recorded elsewhere.

Actually other societies provided many historical and history long before Hebrews did Joe. From the Phoenicians were traveling and recording much of what we know today in the world of that time.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

9. It introduced a Document with a summary of laws and statutes, many new, to which none have been able to add to or subtract from: no other religion, ideology or figurehead gave the world a single law not already contained in this Document. Try to name a single new law the world accepts from outside the Torah? It remains comprehensive as a Law book without equal; the world turns by the Torah's 613 Commandments/Laws despite its ancient station in history.

So does many other societies too Joe, from Eygptian to Phoenicians to many more. And some still exist today in museums. And the world does not turn by the OT Joe, you would like to think it does, but it doesnt. MAny of the native americans didnt follow the OT. Many of the African nations like Eygpt didnt follow the OT(and this was before Islam came about), same with Asia cultures.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

10. It prevailed as no other, after disappearing and returning as no other. Apart from being the oldest alphabetical books in existence (The Dead Sea Scrolls), the Hebrew remained dead/dormant for 2000 years, and then returned as a living language/writing again. No other language ever did so after a period of 150 years of dormancy.

It did not disappear. All it did was roam about inthe world and people took no notice because its people didnt want to be noticed Joe, get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

...The closest to expound any acceptable answers to the mystery of Hebrew, after much research, appears from a most unlikely, perhaps unacceptable source. In a book called THE MIDRASH, appears an entry relating to this sudden advent of the world's oldest surviving alphabetical written book. As a preface, the Hebrew is recorded as being a spoken language in ancient Egypt by the Hebrews, but not as a written one: there is no written Hebrew predating the Torah.

Not true. Hebrews used other languages depending where they lived. And like i said, even some scholars believe that the decendants of todays Hebrews didnt even speak that language UNTIL they started taking over other cultures in the Palestine region.

If (as the Book of Genesis implies) the Hebrews came from elsewhere rather than being native to Canaan, their language was most probably not a Canaanite one (as Biblical Hebrew linguistically is). Biblical scholars who accept this feature of the account in Genesis have put forward several theories as to what this language may have been:

The language was Akkadian, the predominating language of the Chaldees.
The language was an early form of the Aramaic language, more specifically the same language spoken by Laban, another descendant of Terah. This theory assumes that Laban inherited the language ancestrally from Terah, thus assuming that the Hebrews spoke Aramaean languages.
It was a Northeast Caucasian language, perhaps closely related to Avar.
The language was one of the extinct Hurro-Urartian languages, a non-Semitic language family based in eastern Anatolia. This theory assumes that the Hebrews were originally Hurro-Urartian-speaking, and different descendants of the culture adopted local languages wherever they sojourned or settled. It also associates the Hebrews either with the Hurrians, or with Urartu and the mountains of Ararat, the traditional landing site of Noah's ark.
The early Hebrews were highly multilingual and no one language clearly predominated. This would be plausible considering Abraham and Lot as sojourners, learning and speaking the local language of the places they traveled and in which they traded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_languages

Basically saying that the original ones that would later be called Hebrew were not even using the language. I have another site, need to find it again that backs this notion up.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

When THE TEN COMMANDMENTS were handed down to the Israelites via Moses (1350 BCE), its second Commandment prohibited the use of Graven Images (for worship). This would present a great contradiction: all writings of this region were in the Cuneiform ('picture writings'), made of animal/beast faces inter-polated with human torsos - or alternatively Human heads with animal limbs. This would clearly not be suitable for the Torah, which contained such a Commandment expressly forbidding Images.

Whats your point? That the new followers of Judaism will make changes in how they spoken before or what they believe? Whats your point?

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

The Midrash tells that Moses was thereupon given the means of transforming 'IMAGE' writings to 'ABSTRACT' writings - and the Alphabet was born. This is the only explaination without numerous self-contradictions.

Ohhh. Well you would be wrong. Hebrew is NOT the first alphabetical language and i already told you this. Eygpt is credited in creating the first alphabet, but many say the actual first sign of what we consider letters today is the Phoenician alphabet or phonemic script. It was in Greece that they added vowels. Your Hbrew languages are not considered true alphabets because of the lack of vowels and are very consonant-based.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

The above noted ten attributes of the Hebrew, which is unique unto itself and not shared by any other presumed prototypes, may have in fact been the precursor - not the derivative - of those writings, and also the closest derivitive from one single language which diffused to 70 Block languages at Babel. That the Israelites did not borrow Hebrew from the surrounds, specially not from Canaan - which did not possess the Hebrew - is established in the OT texts itself: that the Hebrews returned to Canaan 3250 years ago, equipped with the five Hebrew books already in their possession - thus they could not have received Hebrew from the Canaanites.

Can you prove this Joe? I can provide my proof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet#History
Look at the bottom of the link and see the bibliography.
There was precurors, they are called the Phoenicians and Eygotians.

Originally Posted by IamJoseph

In Judaic belief, Hebrew is referred to as Holy Tongue - that the Holy One spoke in this language at Eden and at Sinai. And that at Sinai there was no echo after the voice…

Just because they say it is the holy language, doesnt make it so Joe. Your proof again?

[IamJoseph]

Originally Posted by Dragon

Ohhh. Well you would be wrong. Hebrew is NOT the first alphabetical language and i already told you this. Eygpt is credited in creating the first alphabet, but many say the actual first sign of what we consider letters today is the Phoenician alphabet or phonemic script. It was in Greece that they added vowels. Your Hbrew languages are not considered true alphabets because of the lack of vowels and are very consonant-based.




Can you prove this Joe? I can provide my proof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet#History

Do you not see any contradictions here:

This script eventually developed into the Proto-Canaanite alphabet, which in turn was refined into the Phoenician alphabet.[6] Note that the scripts mentioned above are not considered proper alphabets, as they all lack characters representing vowels. These early vowelless alphabets are called abjads, and still exist in scripts such as the Arabic and Hebrew scripts.


An engraving in Phoenician, the first widespread alphabetic writing system and the parent script of GreekPhoenician was the first major phonemic script.[7][8] In contrast to two other widely used writing systems at the time, Cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphs, each of which contained thousands of different characters, it contained only about two dozen distinct letters, making it a script simple enough for common traders to learn. Another advantage to Phoenician was that it could be used to write down many different languages, since it recorded words phonetically.

The script was spread by the Phoenicians, whose Thalassocracy allowed the script to be spread across the Mediterranean.[7]

It says alpha script developed in Canaan [un-dated], which became phoenecian. Both these nations predate Israel - but where are their equivalences with the hebrew?`Phonecia lasted untill Babylon's invasion of Judea in 586 BCE - a 1000 years after Israel emerged - by which time we have 100s of alphabetical hebrew books: what happened to the pheoncian - an issue not near resolved by insignificant tomb stones, which have no dates, and their period being established only by carbon means?

Thd OT says the egyptians spoke no Hebrew, and ironically the 1700 BCE date is when Joseph was Egypt's viceroy and he learnt egyptian: there is again not a shred of hard-copy alphabeticals from Egypt - even upto the time the Greeks landed there! These countries are not just older, but they never experienced exiles of dispersions from the region: there is no reason there is not a greater array of books from them - but there is NOTHING. It does not bother you - and I needed ask why!

[dimensionQ]

What about Sanskrit?

[IamJoseph]

Originally Posted by dimensionQ

What about Sanskrit?

Its a derivitive of an older language in India. The current Hindhi is 95% similar to Hebrew, which does make me think there is a linkage here!