I'm not normally a fan of poetry, to say the least! But this poem's great! (It was written by someone on the JREF forum a while ago to mock a rule they have that though it's against the rules to attack the character of a person on the board, it's not against the rules to attack a group they're a member of, while identifying them as a member of that group. Therefore, one can attack the person in a veiled way by launching a scathing attack on a group they're a member of.) I was reminded of this little poem after PoseidonsNet posted something toxic and foul in a thread I'd posted in today. It seems a common pattern with him that whenever violence against women or children by men is being discussed, he displays absolutely no empathy for the victims, but worse, he actually blames them for getting into the predicament they're in, inventing hairbrained theories to explain the state of mind that led them to behave so irresponsibly. Or he denies they're really being victimised, insisting most of them are making it up. I find such cretinous attitudes revolting. And in one who claims (though his claim is certainly doubtful) to be a qualified psychologist, they're despicable and dangerous. Storyteller might be a minor league sociopath, but I've never known him to say anything that comes remotely close to the sheer repulsive toxicity of the views Poseidon commonly expresses. If he really did learn them from a psychology course, it's dangerous and needs to be closed down. If it encourages its students to blame victims, be satisfied with a totally undeveloped sense of empathy for those who are suffering, hate homosexuals, and believe other cretinous views Poseidon has stated on here, it's irresponsible and run by charlatans, and will be spreading toxic attitudes into the community. So here's that wonderful amusing poem, which I dedicate to PoseidonsNet: You There's a group, there's a clique, there's a gang, there's a tribe, and they say what you say and they do what you do and subscribe to opinions to which you subscribe ... oh, and one of their members, I notice, is you. Without reason or wit, without charm, without thought, this minority's numbers are thankfully few, but I'm sure the total is greater than nought because one of their members, I notice, is you. To personal insults I never would stoop, for the mods, so it seems, take a very dim view. But I can pour my scorn on this odious group of which one of the members, I notice, is you. I can post any number of internet flames in generic disgust at this coterie, who I may not single out or abuse by their names --- though I can say that one of their members is you. Of collections of liars and halfwits and fools I may take this position, and hold it as true: that they're all of them stupid ridiculous tools and that one of these ... members ... I notice, is you. I may say of this clan that my only regret is they don't choke to death on the bile that they spew. It's not personal, why do you get so upset if I mention that one of their members is you?
I thought YOU meant me, b4 I read the thread. ;-j My common pattern is that violence is violence, regardless of the gender. Its only people with the one-sided view, like yourself, that only consider violence by men against women to be open to debate, and the rest is shoved under the proverbial carpet. Its not suprising you do not like poetry, as that would show a sensitive side that is lacking in your maternalist thinking which simply mimics chauvinism, except it inverts the genders. 99% of infanticide today is the mother killing THEIR children in the womb. But you're a typical aTheist pro-child murderer, are'nt you? Seeing as though the majority of violence in the world is metered out by the white-female-ruled-atheist society against young men via the WAR-ON-DRUGS (and yes, using their queer legal system, mostly white queer men are the perps) Your society is still stuck in apartheid. Even the Afrikaners are more advanced than the British! What a tragedy!
As regards poofs. When my homosexual psychology lecturer selected me to do a study on homosexuality it was on the basis that i was the best qualified, and that i was a male hetero who had the personal respect of that community. When my hetero phil of ethics lecturer asked for the same study from me it was on the basis that i had zero opinion on the matter.
I considered queers to be a bit like blind people, lacking something, but not to be hated. But if blind people INSIST on being airline pilots, even after many accidents, then one cannot put them in the same boat. My attitude to queers became hard-line AFTER the notion of homsexual adoption (marriage) became legit. I cannot for one second believe that queers can adopt children any more than blind people can be airline pilots. And if blind people INSIST that it is discrimination to stop them being airline pilots, then quite frankly I would have no choice but to become hostile. There are far too many abused children in this world. And by ignoring what I have here said, YOU are culpable of many cases of child molesting. YOU promote child-abuse YOU promote rape YOU promote the destruction of society into war and YOU are worse than the blind airline pilot. But then YOU are too ignorant to read any post longer than 2 lines (unless you wrote it yourself) because YOU are a ME-ME-ME virus
Poseidon, you know, you've never explained: Just how do you know all these things you state with such boldness? Do us the kindness of Explaining the subtle mystery of it all. How, for instance, do you know what you stated in another thread today, that thing about how when I was four years old, I envied men for their penises? You know Poseidon, I would imagine it would take some kind of supernatural talent to divine that, when no mention of such a thing has ever been made. But of course, you don't have supernatural talent; you don't even have much natural talent, judging from the bile you continually spew all over this board; the truth is, isn't it, that you are a veritable well of bluster and hot air. You are so filled with spiteful bile it tends to come spewing out long before you ever have the chance to get your brain into gear. ... At least, that's how it seems. I will reserve judgment though, having, it seems, more sense than you. Yep, here we see Poseidon committing another cardinal sin of qualified psychologists. He sees me participating in a couple of threads about violence, and somehow imagines he knows everything about my attitudes. A real psychologist would never do such a thing. A real responsible psychologist would ask questions until they thought they had the full picture before making a judgment on a person's attitudes. But certainly not Poseidon! Then he goes off on a completely wacky rant which frankly seems insane. I couldn't bear to put my brain through the excrutiating insult of tedium it would have to endure if I read that lot, which is typical of my responses to Poseidon posts. He hardly knows a thing about me, and yet he thinks he can make all these judgments. The rest of what I put myself through the tedium of reading appears to be just wrong-headed insanity. It's highly tiresome to read the drivel he spews. But I'll probably be provoking more of it by my next actions: I'm going to quote some of the offensive toxic things Poseidon has said when issues about violence have come up. No, he hasn't said, "Hey, remember women can be violent towards men as well", like a sensible person might if they wanted to bring that issue into the argument. No, I will show you where his disgusting abhorrent attitudes have made him spam the board with sentiments that seem to display an utter lack of empathy for victims. In a thread about rape, the issue of the rape of children, sometimes little children, came up. Two articles were quoted about child rape in his country. Here are some quotes from the articles, and then I'll quote Poseidon's toxic and uncaring response. Then I think that'll be all for now, but I'll certainly quote more of his disgusting uncaring responses to things if he posts back and protests. Contrast his dismissive brushing aside of the child rape issue with his insistent concern for embryos in the womb that can't feel pain or experience emotional hurt. It's interesting that he has so much more concern for those than he does for children who go through agonies of fear and pain and often die slowly from the terrible diseases they caught while being raped. I wonder why embryos that can't feel pain and can't feel emotional hurt are so much more precious to him. I don't suppose he could give us a rational answer to that. But here are the quotes from the articles. First, some statistics: South Africa: Rape Facts Deadly rumor-Some Africans mistakenly believe that sex with a virgin will cure men of AIDS What did Poseidon do? Did he dispute the statistics with scientific analyses that have found the situation is not as bad as reported? Did he sympathise and say, "Yes, this is terrible; something seriously needs to be done about this, and I'm sure there are people in the country who are competent to do it"? No! Here's what he said: How can anyone fail to find that response disgusting? He brushes the issue aside completely, apart from to try to blame women. And again, of course, he has to bring his pet drug issue into it. Drugs drugs drugs, oh yes, that's the only important thing around here. No doubt he'll respond with more of his shoddy attempts to defend himself and blame others for what he says on here. If he does, I will post more of his words that show just how sick his views can be. I fully expect him to respond by turning this thread, as he seems to turn so many others, into a ranting room where he can vent the bigotry and hatred we no doubt all associate with him now. He'll try to turn this thread from a discussion of his uncaring attitude towards victims of violence into a discussion of why drug laws are so mean and how women are the real murderers with all the abortion they commit, just as he tried to turn the one about rape into a protest about drug laws. He'll have no respect for the topic this thread's supposed to be about, and he'll be totally oblivious to the fact that his insane-sounding hateful bigotry and attempts to turn this thread into a ranting room for his pet issues just makes him look silly. Tell him time and time again and he still won't get the point. He doesn't seem to ever think to start a thread where he can lay out the issues clearly that he feels strongly about. He doesn't seem to know how to put forward a coherent argument about them, and he behaves like a cuckoo invading another bird's nest, trying to turn most of the threads he joins into a discussion of drug laws and his other favourite issues, whatever they're actually supposed to be about. His posts seem to be all disorganised primitive emotional reactionism, just tantrums really, toddler-style "You do it too" tirades. No caring for anyone beyond his narrow horizons; not even a coherent argument; just bigotry and insane thoughtless accusation. No attempt to actually understand the other person's point of view before he charges in like a drunk waving a bottle bawling at the opposition. He doesn't make any more sense than one of those could be expected to make, and yet he just doesn't realise. I don't suppose he'll ever realise. ******** Well I enjoyed that rant. Come on Poseidon, do Exactly the same thing again that I've just been complaining about, to illustrate that you haven't learned a thing from it and to give me the excuse I need to make the point that you prove my point. :-7 Come on, do what I fully expect you to do, and let's have a virtual carbon copy of your first post in this thread to give me an excuse to say to everyone, "I told you so", and to prompt me to quote more of your offensive disgusting views on victims. :-7 After your next post, I'll quote what you said today in the 'What do women want' thread. It'll give newbies here a great example of your views.
*takes a toke of the joint* *gently takes meme's quivering hand in his* *leans over and kisses her tenderly while her knees quake with excitement* *blows ganja smoke into her lungs in the midst of the kiss* *sends meme into ecstasy* *grins* *blows a smoke ring* *dives back into the ocean*
How truly shocking! My plans for this evening have just come crashing down around my ears! There was me expecting a fight, and Poseidon abruptly and cunningly completely changes tactics and doesn't provoke one! Well this callamitous situation clearly needs to be remedied. So I will continue my campaign of intimidation against him just once or twice more. If he continues his treacherous campaign of non-aggression against me, I'll have to give up the fight altogether. But let's see if he does. He might revert back to his previous behaviour, at which point I'll feel free to continue as before. If not, I'll have to stop. Some viruses do have ethics, you know. But I'll just do this for now: Here's another quote from PoseidonsNet to prove he speaks opinionatedly without even making an attempt to understand the issues of which he speaks, and his views are toxic and lacking empathy. Here's something Poseidon said in the 'What do women want' thread. First I'll quote the article he commented on. Then I'll quote the first bit of what he said, and then illustrate by quoting an article about actual research on the issue he raised that his views are totally wrong. At some point, I may quote the rest of what he said, which is rather wacked-out, and then I'll scathingly comment on that, perhaps quoting another article. Here's the quote Poseidon was commenting on: From Profile of a rapist or a stalker, or an abuser And now for the first bit of what Poseidon said. His only comment on that article was: There's an article, one of many that refutes what Poseidon said, called Sexual aggression and sports participation. It's quite old, so more research has probably been done since. But here's part of what it says, which contradicts what Poseidon was so sure of:
It's difficult to understand how anyone could say such stupid things as PoseidonsNet does. I'm genuinely finding it impossible to comprehend why he does it. I quote some articles, one obviously based on several projects of scientific research that were done by interviewing people and collating statistical data based on the interviews, and what he's obviously implying is that the personal experience of just one person, himself, trumps the whole lot. How can anyone do such an utterly ridiculous thing? I wonder just how many violent relationships Poseidon has encountered: one, five, a dozen, two dozen? I doubt it can be that many, because surely if it was, even he might have a few qualms of conscience about descending into one of his brainless "South Africa is not a violent country; you're the ones who commit just about all the violence in the world" rants. But that leaves him in a catch 22 situation; if he hasn't encountered many violent relationships, how does he imagine he can be so sure of his opinion that only weak little men abuse women? If he has encountered a lot, it'll still only be a minute sample size, and it'll mean he really ought to start feeling a wee bit uncomfortable when he spews his "You're the ones who commit the world's violence" indoctrination-induced drivel all over the board. Here, in case of the unlikely event that Poseidon has the mental capacity to take this in, or that anyone is really foolish enough to imagine Poseidon's own personal experience and observation trumps scientific research data, is an article on why anecdotal evidence is unreliable and thus can't be trusted. It's about medical evidence, but the same principles apply to any kind of evidence: The Role of Anecdotes in Science-Based Medicine
and i study REAL people and then seek verification from texts as a means to finding the correct words that is i do not let texts dictate my ideas like you do for eg you say that the fetus is not conscious because you copy-pasted it how can you POSSIBLY know this?
Is it possible for tedium to implode one's head? No? Well I'll probably be allright then. That's unless Poseidon can tell us he has actually known people whose heads have imploded through tedium, possibly other people who've had conversations on forums with him, in which case, I'm going to have to start to worry. And to think his post was only small this time! At least that's one good thing. Well I haven't got time to reply right now because it's getting late. But tomorrow I will shoot down Poseidon's latest foolishness with the relish it clearly deserves. ... Yes, I know, my tolerance levels are clearly not what they should be. Perhaps I'll start a post called Six proofs that Poseidon knows nothing of what he speaks, but I haven't decided yet. I would actually be much much more tolerant of what Poseidon says if he wasn't so pig-headed in presuming he's right all the time no matter what the other person says, and if he didn't keep totally distorting things, including the way he presents others' opinions on things, which he presumes to know without even finding them out first. Case in point: It appears Poseidon either doesn't know the difference between a fetus and an embryo, or he doesn't read carefully. It appears he imagines a tiny clump of cells just a week past its conception has the same level of consciousness as a baby about to be born. I don't know where he picked up such backward thinking. Either that, or he is misrepresenting me as having said I think that. I have certainly never said a fetus has no consciousness. Presumably, since Poseidon claims to derive all his knowledge from first-hand experience which he then goes on to verify through books, he has actually spoken to fetuses so he's proved they're conscious. And since he doesn't know the difference between a fetus and an embryo, I think it's also safe to assume he's also spoken to an embryo, perhaps just five weeks past its conception, assuming it was a fetus, and it maybe told him it was conscious, could feel pain, experience emotional hurt, and do everything a genuine fetus or even a toddler can do. Who knows. His bringing up of this issue appears to be his only response to my complaint that he thinks of embryos as immensely precious, but doesn't seem to care enough about the terrible suffering of the little children I mentioned to do anything but make a few comments about how if women didn't rock their male children's cradles so hard the males wouldn't grow up to be violent. The question is, ... do I need garlic while I'm walking around in this twilight zone? Oh well, a bit more tomorrow perhaps.
As promised, I'm going to finish my comments on Poseidon's latest post in this thread today, since it was too late last night by the time I got around to reading what he said to say everything I wanted to: For one thing, I copy-and-pasted no such thing! I've no idea where you dreamed up that idea. For another: To illustrate that you say things with a total disregard to whether they're actually true, here's something that totally contradicts that statement. Have a look at this page and you'll see just how utterly it contradicts it. I link to partway through a conversation where I'm arguing with someone against a blithe acceptance of abortion and against the notion that fetuses can't be considered human. Here it is. You don't take the least bit of trouble to find out what people's opinions actually are before you complain about them holding opinions you don't like, do you! If you continue to do so, I will link to other utter contradictions of what you say to illustrate the utter stupidity of protesting about a person's opinions when you haven't actually got a clue about whether they hold the opinions you're accusing them of holding or not. And again, you don't seem to understand the difference between a fetus and an embryo. I expect you thought you were asking a clever question: "Go on, tell me how you can be sure fetuses aren't conscious, when they're in the womb so you can't tell such a thing". Apart from the fact that that's a foolish misrepresentation of something I said that you seem to have manufactured out of thin air, it will become obvious to you that I don't believe fetuses have no consciousness if you read the thread I linked to; and any mention I did make of the unborn in this thread has been about embryos. You think embryos might be conscious, perhaps even immediately after conception? ... But you also say you only believe things you've observed yourself. Just how have you observed conscious embryos just after conception? There are disputes about when the unborn begin to feel pain and stress, but scientists can be very sure that an embryo in the first weeks after conception won't, because its brain and nervous system aren't developed enough for them to be able to transmit pain. You see, you don't actually have to have first-hand experience of something before you can be sure of it. I would link you to an article, but since you appear to have no respect whatsoever for scientific data, it would probably be a waste of effort. There isn't enough time in one lifetime to accumulate all the experience that would allow you to gain all the useful knowledge you can get through other people's work - often other people who have done extensive research! In the context of my previous post, your statement can only signify two things: 1. Confirmation bias is very much your thing - you actively seek out articles that confirm what you think you've observed; this would have to be the case, since there is so much data around refuting the things you say. 2. You're simply lying through your teeth, possibly both when you claim to have only observed that only weak sissy men beat up women, and when you say you actually bother to read articles confirming what you believe you've observed. Now, do you want me to post more proofs that you regularly speak without having a clue whether what you say is true or sometimes even makes sense, or are you going to stop doing it?
i see that do you always get pedantic when proven that you have made a claim as fact, which you could possibly never know? how can you know wether ovaries are conscious or not? sperm cells? amoeba? atoms? aTheists?
Welcome ... to the twilight zone! Read Poseidon's posts ... and wonder in horror! Great. Poseidon wants to continue to fight me! What a wonderful thing to do with a Saturday afternoon! I was just writing the draft script of a radio ... well never mind; who wants to do that when you can drop everything and run into battle to fight the ever-eager Poseidon! (Well, the usually eager; but it seems he's been so eager today he's come to the board especially early!) However, he didn't pay any attention to the quality of his response, sadly. For a start, he only seems to have read the first line of what I said in my first of two posts on the subject. It's a pity, since if he'd bothered to read more, he'd have realised it makes what he said seem foolish in the extreme and he would have deleted it. Oh well, it'll be there forever for all to see now as a memento of him, a souvenir for all to look at so they can see his rather wacked-out ideas. ... Supposing they have strange inclinations like that. But yes Poseidon, how can we tell the skin cells you casually rub off yourself if you ever have a bath aren't conscious? How can you tell you're not committing cruel callous mass murder every time you wash? How can you tell the bacteria you brutally kill every time you put your hand down on your desk aren't screaming in agony as they writhe in their death throes and then coming to a sad sad end? If you haven't actually spoken to these things, how can you tell? Yes, why don't we all live in some kind of environment where we're so compassionate towards bacteria and single cells that we never wash and never do any cleaning? Yes, the bacteria might end up killing us, but isn't that kinder than us killing them? I'm going to have to end this conversation soon. Smacking around those who I'm beginning to think are insane is not really my thing, and smacks of cruelty itself.
well when your opening phrase is and then you continue by typing two pages.... its pretty obvious that you don't read your own posts, so why should I? *carresses meme on the cheek* *contemplates kissing the pouting bottom lip* *slaps her bum instead*
You think threatening to do that's going to shut me up, do you? ... Well perhaps you're right. ... For now. But if you'd observed just a little more closely, you'd have seen that the first post was only short, and the second was written a mere matter of hours ago. Don't make that mistake again.
and if you observed you would see that the point about consciousness was not anything to do with wether we should respect the life of conscious entities but that you make claims based on books you read, claims which nobody could ever know
Wow, how wrong I was! There was me thinking Poseidon wanted to give up fighting, and now I realise that wasn't the case at all! Right! Poseidon, if you actually bothered to read my posts, you'd have realised I gave you an extremely basic reason why scientists can in fact be very sure indeed that clumps of cells do not have consciousness, and can be sure about many other things they can pass knowledge on to us about. I made the very basic point that to have consciousness, something has to have at least some level of cognitive functioning. An organism that does not have a brain cannot have any level of cognitive functioning whatsoever. An organism that does not have a nervous system cannot possibly have the transmission of information required to feel pain anywhere. Therefore, scientists can be very sure that although once an unborn baby has developed sufficiently that they do have a rudimentary brain and nervous system, they will feel pain and stress, before they have developed any such thing, they won't. You see, one doesn't have to have first-hand experience of everything to be sure of it. You seem surprisingly unfamiliar with the concept of research and scientific enquiry.
are you a scientist? have you done these 'experiments?' yourself? at what point does the child in the womb SUDDENLY develop consciousness? at 8 weeks? and 1 second before 8 weeks, it did NOT have consciusness? so you assume that pain is consciousness? poor kid of course one can just have blind faith in 'scientists' have you ever heard of logical postivism? let me explain it to you in simple words : if you do not have the experience yourself then its just hear-say nobody can know the connection between consciousnes and brain (in our present metaphysical state) because nobody can remove their brain to see for themselves when a person is unconscious they still have a brain if brain caused consciousness then this would not be possible but hey appeal to the authority of the 'scientists' get down on your knees and accept their opinions on blind faith FIGHT and SMITE all you wish its clear that your agenda is to be aggresive and not understand is the JREF money-laundery short of victims?
