Since PoseidonsNet's about the only contributor to this forum now, perhaps it ought to be renamed the PoseidonsNet forum. I don't mind him blanketing the rest of it with whatever it is he posts; I just wish he wouldn't do it in my thread! I've no idea what he said. Still, since I don't want him to have the last word, as I'd like anyone who clicks on 'go to last post' to read something worthwhile, I might post something else about violence against women in Pakistan or a related issue whenever he posts. If he stops posting in this thread, I won't do it nearly so much. The other day I heard an Afghan woman, Fawzia Koofi, who is said to have a chance of becoming the next president of Afghanistan (perhaps if her gender's hidden on the ballot paper?) say she hasn't got high hopes for peace in Afghanistan at the moment, and Pakistani efforts to help the peace process along are in reality a deceptive sham, because the Pakistan intelligence service is sponsoring the training of the Taliban in Afghanistan, because they think it's in their interests to have an unstable Afghanistan. I don't think she said why. But there was a BBC documentary recently about how they've been doing that for years. If she becomes president, she wants to improve women's rights. It seems women are treated just as badly if not even worse in Afghanistan than they are in Pakistan, where they have similar laws and customs. From a couple of months ago there's this example about Afghanistan: Jailed Afghan rape victim freed but 'to marry attacker' A similar report, Jailed Afghan rape victim freed with no pre-conditions reported she was allowed out without having to marry the rapist. Over a year earlier the BBC reported on women prisoners in Afghanistan: The Afghan women jailed for 'bad character' In Pakistan, there have been similar laws, but there were some amendments a few years ago: Pakistan’s rape laws amended From Amnesty International, 2007 Those kinds of customs are simply bound to affect the attitudes of men from Pakistan living in the West, if they are heavily influenced by family members who accept them as right and good. Perhaps it's no wonder so many of them seem to blame the victims. (See post 1)
Several weeks ago, there was a documentary on BBC1 about the problem of "honour" crimes committed in Britain by Muslims from Asian and Middle Eastern communities. It highlighted sick attitudes among many families of women victims of domestic violence, who would often blame the victims, assuming they just must have done something to provoke their attackers, rather than considering the attackers at fault. The programme can still be watched on the BBC iPlayer. From the page there that links to it: The programme addressed the question of whether attitudes to "honour" are less harsh among young Muslims. Disturbingly, but confirming what I've been saying all along in this thread, the programme reported that a lot of young Muslims thought women should abide by the honour codes of their communities, and a fair percentage thought they deserved to be physically punished if they violated them. It quoted one Muslim who was only about 20 years old as stating that a man is like gold, which if dropped in the mud can be cleaned again, whereas a woman is like silk that can't just have the dirt wiped off, and that was why women needed to be treated with greater strictness than men. Gosh how enlightening! From a BBC News article about the programme called 'Honour' crime victims living in fear in the UK, that reported some things people from Asian communities actually told the programme: So Those can be the kinds of things that are seen as meriting honour killings or other physical punishments by some! Those are the kinds of things that make women seem "dirty" in some people's minds! The programme/news article also reported: Really, when there's a strong tradition of repressing women in a community for the sake of "honour",because of misdemeanours that can even be trivial or an attempt to stand up for a person's human rights, it's no wonder it's just seen as acceptable among many for some in the community to attack women they perceive as violating honour codes. For instance, a lot of things Western teenagers do will be perceived as breaching them, and thus females, who it seems acceptable to treat badly anyway, even if they're family members, might well be seen as deserving of harsh treatment. There have to be reasons why in certain communities, it's seen as more tolerable for community members to gang rape girls than in others, and traditional attitudes to women might go some way to explaining it.
Oh dear, Poseidon's deliberately made my thread drop out of sight of people viewing the front page of this forum again by bumping a very old thread from this section as soon as he noticed I'd posted in this one. I'll have to resurrect this by giving more detail about what I've been talking about. A worthwhile thing to talk more about anyway. Another thing the BBC Panorama documentary highlighted was the way women in the Muslim communities where honour killings are a tradition are encouraged to stay in abusive relationships. As an example, a man from Pakistan was interviewed after his adult daughter had been sent over to England to have an arranged marriage with a man from a Pakistani family already living here. The man beat her. He was very abusive, and she asked her father for help on the phone several times. He would always tell her to stay in the relationship. The last time she spoke to him on the phone, she said she wasn't going to be around any more. About an hour later, she was found in the back garden, having tried to commit suicide by setting fire to herself. She was taken to hospital, but she had a brain haemorrhage and was permanently incapacitated and now lives in a home, not being able to do anything for herself. Her father now regrets what happened, saying it's a waste of a young life. While it's good that he's now prepared to speak out, it's a pity that he didn't see the potential for the ruination of young life while she was being abused and support her in getting out of the relationship, just as it's a pity that possibly thousands like him are still advising their own daughters to stay in abusive relationships for the supposed sake of family honour. The programme said suicide rates among Asian women living in the UK are three times the national average, equivalent to the suicide rates among soldiers returning from war. The programme made the point that for many of these women, it really is as if they're living in a war zone, since they have abusive husbands they've been forced to marry, and families who do their best to make them stay in the abusive relationships and often blame them for the abuse. An article in the respected paper the Telegraph highlights the frighteningly cruel, upsetting and horrendous plight of many teenage girls from places like India, Bangladesh and Pakistan, who are forced into marriages by abusive families: Women who escape forced marriages. These traditions are toxic and dangerous, but it's difficult to know what would change the outlook on life of those brought up in them who really believe women need to be controlled like that. But again, when there are such repressive attitudes to women in those communities, it's no real wonder that the communities where such attitudes are common will also be the communities that spawn the most people who think it's OK to gang rape girls.
Well, I gave you a chance and you muffed it! As much as the foremost of the following admission pains me, the latter imparts an inversely proportional amount of satisfaction; Meme’s right, and you’re a fuckwit! Damn! I’m surrounded by fuckwits.
Another thing the BBC Panorama program mentioned was that though thousands of teenagers are being taken out of schools by Pakistani/Indian parents to be forced to marry, and while a lot of Muslim boys are growing up with the repressive attitudes to women traditional in their cultures, many schools are reluctant to educate their pupils on the issues. An Asian woman who grew up in such a repressive environment and now runs a charity for girls trying to escape being forced to marry or being abused in forced marriages told the programme she's approached a lot of schools and asked if she can speak about the issues in them to educate the pupils, but they won't allow her to do so, because of "cultural sensitivities". The issue is mentioned in an article that talks about the programme: Is this Britain's first white honour killing victim? At first, the article talks about a murder that took place. Then it says:
Methinks there's a spammer about who deserves to be punished. ... In the meantime, back to the subject of this thread: From the respected paper the Guardian last week: Rochdale gang jailed for sexually exploiting vulnerable girls. It goes on to say what sentences they've been given. Most seem hellishly light. They'll be out of prison before those girls even leave their teenage years. From BBC News: Rochdale grooming case: Victim's story
