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  #1  
Old 06-06-2004, 11:56 PM
Sapientius Sapientius is offline
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Irresponsible Christians

Cristians are irresponsible by nature.

Is the Christian creation myth not based at least in part on human dominion over the Earth's resources and other inhabitants? Also, is it not true that Christian beliefs include that of an eventual rapture and exemption from the consequences of their irresponsible actions? Unless I am mistaken, a person who claims belief in the tenets of Christianity may very well be claiming that it is not wrong to rape the Earth through wontonly killing off all other life and expending all the planet's resources because their "God" gave them the right to do so.

Someone please explain how the rest of humanity can stop irresponsible Christians from exterminating all life.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2004, 12:31 AM
Anarchist Anarchist is offline
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Wink Fundamentalism

Religion has been, is, and will continue to be a wanton, destructive, moralist, hypocritical, ignorant force in all spheres of life. Christianity has the pretense of "brotherly love", "peace on earth", etc., but whenever it comes into politics, it's message is Fuck -"Welfare Mothers", -the Lower Class, -Blacks, -Women, -Children, -Other Religions, -Liberty, -Dissidents, -Liberals, -and anyone who doesn't agree with us. .Now, some kinds of christianity ain't that bad, the ones who don't get involved, but ignorant and regressive idiots like Ronald Reagan are messing it up for the rest of us. So, back to the question, what do we do? I say, revolution! No Gods, No Masters! Raise the black flag high! Yee-haw!
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2004, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientius
Cristians are irresponsible by nature.

Is the Christian creation myth not based at least in part on human dominion over the Earth's resources and other inhabitants? Also, is it not true that Christian beliefs include that of an eventual rapture and exemption from the consequences of their irresponsible actions? Unless I am mistaken, a person who claims belief in the tenets of Christianity may very well be claiming that it is not wrong to rape the Earth through wontonly killing off all other life and expending all the planet's resources because their "God" gave them the right to do so.

Someone please explain how the rest of humanity can stop irresponsible Christians from exterminating all life.
I've yet to see any evidence that being a christian causes a person to consume more resources then any other person in the same situation. You could blame historical christians for what they've done. I doubt, however, that you'll find many christians today who will say that raping and pillaging was a good idea, regardless of the bible.

So exactly why do we need to stop them? And what exactly would that require?
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:20 AM
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I agree with Jademunky, I don't see Christians consuming all that much more than any one else. As for finding some solution to the problem of humanity as a whole abusing the worlds natural resources....well it seems that there are only two possibilities. One humanity becomes extinct via drowning in our own wastes or two that whole rapture thing occures and the problem becomes moot.
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:42 AM
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Phssthpok Phssthpok is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientius
Is the Christian creation myth not based at least in part on human dominion over the Earth's resources and other inhabitants?
Yes, in part. God gave us all the plants and animals. Gave 'em to us, outright, we've got the notarized deeds to them all. Somewhere in the top left-hand drawer...

Quote:
Also, is it not true that Christian beliefs include that of an eventual rapture and exemption from the consequences of their irresponsible actions?
Some Christians enjoy a belief in the chapter of the Bible called Revelations. It's murky on the fine points... basically sounds like an LSD fantasy. It's important to note, however, that not all Christians feel this way, and espouse the words and philosophies attributed to Jesus H. (for haploid) Christ. Even being an atheist/agnostic, I try to do so, they're great. (I didn't really intend to sound like Tony the Tiger just now)

Quote:
Unless I am mistaken, a person who claims belief in the tenets of Christianity may very well be claiming that it is not wrong to rape the Earth through wontonly killing off all other life and expending all the planet's resources because their "God" gave them the right to do so.
See above. Not all those who call themselves Christians feel this way, and in fact I think it's a relatively small minority of the whole.

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Someone please explain how the rest of humanity can stop irresponsible Christians from exterminating all life.
Non-sequitor...

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  #6  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:45 AM
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Forgotten
I'm also holding out for secret option #3, that some extremely technologically advanced yet terribly naive aliens stumble upon us and allow us access to their technologies. Mwahahaha, ah....... *ahem*.

Or people could sit down and figure out this whole food/water/air deal somehow. nah...too crazy.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2004, 03:13 AM
Fallen Fallen is offline
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Well put jademunky!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientius
Cristians are irresponsible by nature.

Is the Christian creation myth not based at least in part on human dominion over the Earth's resources and other inhabitants? Also, is it not true that Christian beliefs include that of an eventual rapture and exemption from the consequences of their irresponsible actions? Unless I am mistaken, a person who claims belief in the tenets of Christianity may very well be claiming that it is not wrong to rape the Earth through wontonly killing off all other life and expending all the planet's resources because their "God" gave them the right to do so.

Someone please explain how the rest of humanity can stop irresponsible Christians from exterminating all life.
We were given this earth as our home. We have been given all power to do what we will with it, but we still must respect the creations of our Maker.

Again; freedom is not the ability to do what ever you want to, it is the ability to do what you ought to.

And also sapien, we do not have rights. You have no right to expect to be treated with respect or even treated humanely for that matter, as you are likely to be one who wouldn't treat someone like that if they were in your position. But, despite this, I would have a reponsibility to treat you as an equal, as a human being created in the image of God; a God who loves you so much that it is beyond comprehension. You are worth all the pain of crucifixion and the bearance of all sin to allow you to come into His family in the hope that you would accept Him as your God.

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and keep you.
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2004, 01:27 PM
culinarean culinarean is offline
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Christians Are Responsible

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientius
Cristians are irresponsible by nature.

Is the Christian creation myth not based at least in part on human dominion over the Earth's resources and other inhabitants? Also, is it not true that Christian beliefs include that of an eventual rapture and exemption from the consequences of their irresponsible actions? Unless I am mistaken, a person who claims belief in the tenets of Christianity may very well be claiming that it is not wrong to rape the Earth through wontonly killing off all other life and expending all the planet's resources because their "God" gave them the right to do so.

Someone please explain how the rest of humanity can stop irresponsible Christians from exterminating all life.
1) As has been pointed out, we were given the Earth to do with as we please, but we were also given the responsibility to be her steward. As we use the resources, it is also our responsibility to safeguard them.

2) The Rapture - we are NOT exempt from the consequences of our irresponsibilities. We are judged based on our beliefs and our actions. If you don't believe this, then look at the words of the Lord's Prayer, "Forgive us our tresspasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESSPASS AGAINST US." Our faith in Jesus as Christians means that we do our best to emulate Jesus life. That leads us to responsibility. Irresponsibility leads us away from Christ and away from his graces at the rapture.

Now please learn more about Christianity and don't make assumptions based on erroneous information. Then you will come to understand what we believe.

It is irresponsible to assume knowledge of something based on incomplete, misunderstood, or erroneous information.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:08 PM
Numberoneson Numberoneson is offline
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For an example of the worst thinking of this type, check into James Watts,
Reagans Secretary of the Interior during the 1980's. Most of his
anti-conservation views were based on his understanding of the Bible
and the imminent second coming of Jesus.

So, yes, Christianity can result in such attitudes, even in powerful people
in responsible positions with the ability to do something about it.
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:13 PM
culinarean culinarean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numberoneson
For an example of the worst thinking of this type, check into James Watts,
Reagans Secretary of the Interior during the 1980's. Most of his
anti-conservation views were based on his understanding of the Bible
and the imminent second coming of Jesus.

So, yes, Christianity can result in such attitudes, even in powerful people
in responsible positions with the ability to do something about it.
I agree with you.

The point is, Christianity promotes responsibility. Individuals use it for irresponsibility and some use it for responsibility. But the base on which Christianity stands, that is Jesus, was the paragon of responsibility.

So the proper initial statement is that some Christians are irresponsible and then I could agree with the statement.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:25 PM
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RA RA is offline
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What we need to stop is irresponsible christians that enforce their ideals upon anyone and everyone. Using the power of their positions to spread their brand of hatred in the name of their almighty god. By trying to convert the heathens no matter what the cost to the social fabric of a nation. In essence they are exterminating life through the shear stupidity of their actions and intolerance of those not like themselves.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2004, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
I agree with you.

The point is, Christianity promotes responsibility. Individuals use it for irresponsibility and some use it for responsibility. But the base on which Christianity stands, that is Jesus, was the paragon of responsibility.

So the proper initial statement is that some Christians are irresponsible and then I could agree with the statement.
Would you take a stand against the irresponsible christians?
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2004, 03:07 PM
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Symptom777 Symptom777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
1) As has been pointed out, we were given the Earth to do with as we please,
Free will!!

Quote:
but we were also given the responsibility to be her steward. As we use the resources, it is also our responsibility to safeguard them.
Not free after all, bugger!!

Quote:
2) The Rapture - we are NOT exempt from the consequences of our irresponsibilities. We are judged based on our beliefs and our actions. If you don't believe this, then look at the words of the Lord's Prayer, "Forgive us our tresspasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESSPASS AGAINST US." Our faith in Jesus as Christians means that we do our best to emulate Jesus life. That leads us to responsibility. Irresponsibility leads us away from Christ and away from his graces at the rapture.
And we get shafted if we make a mistake, double bugger!!

Quote:
Now please learn more about Christianity and don't make assumptions based on erroneous information. Then you will come to understand what we believe.
1) Do what you like
2) except what God says you cannot do
3) If you transgress you are fucked.

Quote:
It is irresponsible to assume knowledge of something based on incomplete, misunderstood, or erroneous information.
Aha - fucked before you even start!!
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2004, 03:22 PM
Numberoneson Numberoneson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culinarean
I agree with you.

The point is, Christianity promotes responsibility. Individuals use it for irresponsibility and some use it for responsibility. But the base on which Christianity stands, that is Jesus, was the paragon of responsibility.

So the proper initial statement is that some Christians are irresponsible and then I could agree with the statement.
To me the question is similar to the one about whether Islam supports
terrorism. Of course, you can find terrorists in all walks of life and
various persuasions, but do the teachings lead to those positions
or not? While the majority may not take it all to heart, there does
seem to be enough ranting against infidels in the Quran to support
the terrorist's logic (and enough mullah's emphasizing it), so I say
it does.

And while the weight of the Quran may point in the other direction,
there is still enough for a selective interpretation to go the other
way without feeling that you are straying too far from the teachings.

For that you have to look at the teachings and how they can be
interpreted. Most people may choose one interpretation over the
other, but there are a lot of opportunists out there who are just
looking for any amount of justification to go forward. And the implied
authority of a holy book is all some need.

If you look at James Watts you can see the way in which his religion
led to an anti-conservation stance. It is completely understandable
to me that people could believe the way he did as a natural consequence
of their belief that Jesus is coming back soon.

Environmental problems are secondary on the list of "things that matter"
to someone who is literally expecting Jesus to come down from the
heavens at any time.

However, Watts did get removed from office for idiocy like this, so
I cannot say that everyone (or even the majority) in his general
religious group (Christian) agreed with him, though it may be a
more popular view in certain Christian circles.

In a similar vein, I also think the idea that people can have their
sins "cleansed" by a simple change in beliefs makes it easier for
people to consider committing crimes, but this interpretation is
not overtly socially acceptable (except perhaps in prisons).

After all, the consequences can be "washed away" by just
accepting Jesus. I'm not saying the majority think this way, but
the logic to do so is built into the beliefs ready for the right person
(or Christian subculture) to tap into to justify their actions.

And this is not purely theoretical since I've heard people say that they
don't worry too much about what they do because they know that
Jesus will "forgive" them. Maybe that's a simplistic interpretation,
but there are a lot of simple people out there.

And whether they actually admit that they coldly calculate it that
way or not, Christian dominated countries do seem to have much
higher crime rates than, say, Muslim countries where there are fewer
such interpretations (except, perhaps, for killing infidels).
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2004, 03:59 PM
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Durin Durin is offline
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I wonder, who makes the distinction between what parts of the bible/Quran are to be taken litterally and what parts not? On what authority do people cut and paste teachings to mold the definition of god and life to their whimsical personal liking?
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